Quantcast some addons wont work - ESOUI
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09/04/18, 08:20 AM   #1
Marazota
Join Date: Sep 2015
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some addons wont work

but i have all libraries...
cant figure out whats wrong



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09/04/18, 08:24 AM   #2
Scootworks
 
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i know it!

read the addon description
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09/04/18, 08:32 AM   #3
Marazota
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so mouseover pop-up bugged and dont show all dependencies?
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09/04/18, 08:33 AM   #4
Scootworks
 
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yes, that's correct
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09/04/18, 08:55 AM   #5
Marazota
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LF 1 addons with ALL libs inside
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09/04/18, 09:01 AM   #6
Scootworks
 
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Originally Posted by Marazota View Post
LF 1 addons with ALL libs inside


it’s called minion or esoui
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09/04/18, 05:01 PM   #7
SlippyCheeze
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Originally Posted by Marazota View Post
LF 1 addons with ALL libs inside
Feel free to create one, and maintain it. Please enjoy the outcome.
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09/05/18, 08:51 AM   #8
Marazota
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no, thanks
i will wait until developer will create it
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09/06/18, 05:43 AM   #9
Baertram
 
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Just download ALL libraries as standalones and you are done? Minion already provides that?
Maybe disable ALL adodns + libraries, and only enable the libarries listed within FCOItemSaver description.
If this does not work you have not downloaded ALL libraries as standalone versions!

You understand what standalone means?
Not included in other addons.
"Having all libraries" does not mean you are able to use them all.
The included libraries might be old or will not found in other addons if you disable one of the addons including these libraries.
So just download the libraries so they are in your AddOns directory like AddOns\LibStub, AddOns\LibCustomMenu, etc.
Check that their version in teh txt file is the same like show on ESOUi.com.
Restart the game client in total after updating stand alone libraries as they might not get updated in the list properly.

Creating an addon containing ALL libraries which needs to be updated each time an library needs an update? Omg... You simply do not understand the purpose of libraries and that THIS would NOT change anything

Edit:
Your screenshot is misisng LibCustomMenu, LibDialog, LibFilters, LibLoadedAddons, LibFeedback, ... which are needed for FCOIS.
So you do not have all needed libs.

This addon depends on the following libraries:
-LibStub (to load the libraries below properly)
-LibAddonMenu-2.0
-LibCustomMenu
-LibDialog
-LibFilters-2.0
-LibLoadedAddons
-LibMainMenu-2.0
-LibFeedback

Last edited by Baertram : 09/06/18 at 05:51 AM.
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09/17/18, 05:19 PM   #10
zgwortz
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I know it may seem like a pain to update all the libraries in multiple addons, but many of the users of these addons simply get updates with Minion and will never see your notes on the addon description, leading to a lot of people running into problems with your addons.

Perhaps what is needed here is some future improvement in Minion itself? Is there some configuration option we could have on addon X which would tell it to automatically pull in standalone library Y when addon X is installed?
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09/17/18, 05:53 PM   #11
zgwortz
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And... I wrote that while I was updating the game and was already bothered by the idea of being forced to load standalone libraries to get an addon to work. But please forget my suggestion about changing Minion - it's a bad idea.

Because I hadn't realized the *really* bad idea part of downloading standalone libraries: nearly all of them are identified as Out of Date... and nobody should be encouraging people to enable out of date addons just to run their own. IMHO.
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09/18/18, 05:45 AM   #12
Baertram
 
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Yes it is. Read the description of my addons and you may understand why I'm doing this.
And what is the problem about "out of date addons"? They WORK! They are just compared to a number ingame and if the number differs its called "out of date" but it is not!
So just check this f***ing chekcbox ingame and don't even think about it anymore until a REAL lua error appears ingame due to an addon "not working anymore", and not because a number comparison tells you out of date.

Explanation:
Out of date: Apiversion ingame 100025. Api version in addon's txt file: 100024 -> Out of date -> Addons till works totally fine if you enable the echekbox
So even an addon with api 100011, like some libraries got, are able to work 10% successfully and correct.
This out of date is just an idea of ZOs to tell you users hat something could need an update. But you all get it toally wrong and bother us since years now...
Read my addon descriptions and you'll se what time we need to invest just to fix this out of date stuff where it does not need to be fixed at all.
Change your txt file locally and you are fine, if you do not want to enable out of date addons.

Addon not working: Got nothing to do with out of date or not. if the game code changes and the addon doesn't where it needs to, you'll get an lua error message and the addons tops to work.

There are several posts, threads and whatever about this out of date stuff. read it, understand the mechanics please. If you do not want to, or already have and do not understand it, you'll have to accept my decision and that this out of date crap is just nothing which prevents addons from working.

We are not going to invest more of our free time to just make "your" game experience as easy and less time consuming as it can be. The addons were made for ourselves and you are free to use thm or even not. Your decision.
But it is my game time, my money I invest. You need to accept this in the end or start learning to code and update the adodns to your needs, including this api version raise in the txt file each time, where it is not needed at all, as you could simply chekc the checbox ingame and you are set within 1 second!

Edit:
Forgive my rage about this but you are not the first and not the last one starting to fight my decision. You may do this because you do not understand the mechanics. This is why I tried to explain it, again, ... But you have to live with it so you better start to understand and fix stuff YOU want to have by your own in the end. Or simply click this checkbox ingame and just reclick it after each major patch, and everything will work just fine.
If you are using Minion your addons will be updated properly, so I do not even understand what is your problem here?

Last edited by Baertram : 09/18/18 at 05:50 AM.
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09/22/18, 01:05 PM   #13
zgwortz
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My problem is simple: Out of Date addons break the game. Not all of them. Maybe not even most of them. But enough of them are out there and do, and some of them break it badly. *Requiring* that your users enable out of date addons to be able to use your own addon is a BAD IDEA, period. You're limiting the use of your addon to those who are willing to risk breaking the game to use it.

I have at least a dozen addons I used to use, but don't use anymore because I won't check that checkbox -- NO addon is so necessary that I need to destabilize my game for it. Yours is now added to the list -- without the libraries included, you've relegated your addons to being out of date no matter how recently you may have updated them -- you may as well never bother updating the API version of your addons anymore because you can't use them anyway without enabling out of date addons.

I *am* aware of the difficulties in updating libraries. I'm a professional programmer myself (for over 40 years) -- I've written over a half dozen addons for ESO for personal use (plus two libraries) over the last few years - and yes, I have to keep the libraries within them up to date to keep them running. It's. Not. Hard. I use GIT as a source control mechanism -- I download updated libraries once, check them into GIT, and run a simple command line script to update all my addons at the same time. If I wanted to deploy them here, I could have that script do *everything* you've described in your addon posts - the changelog can be pulled from the Git commit log, the Zipping can be done automatically, and even the API version in your own addons can be updated with a script. This is all *trivial* if you use even the basic coding practices.

(And if you're *not* testing all of your addons already when a library gets updated, which is RARE, then you're not testing your addons properly.)

So forgive *my* rage at the idea that you think so little of your end-users that you want them to risk destabilizing their game by forcing them to enable Out of Date addons. It's *NEVER* a good idea, IMHO, to do so unless you're a programmer who has a clue how addons work - and most of your end-users are not.

And if, as you say, the addons were made "for ourselves"... then I suggest you do what I've done with mine - write it for yourself and DON'T bother releasing it here for other people unless you're willing to put in the time and effort to support it properly. (Yes, if you do this based on my suggestion, it might get some people pissed off at me, but I'm not particularly worried about that -- I'd rather have a safer addon environment for *everyone*. And sooner or later, other addons to do what yours used to do will appear. Or I'll write what I need myself.)
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09/22/18, 01:30 PM   #14
Dolgubon
 
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Originally Posted by zgwortz View Post
My problem is simple: Out of Date addons break the game. Not all of them. Maybe not even most of them. But enough of them are out there and do, and some of them break it badly. *Requiring* that your users enable out of date addons to be able to use your own addon is a BAD IDEA, period. You're limiting the use of your addon to those who are willing to risk breaking the game to use it.
They don't. Seriously. We've been trying to get ZOS to either change or remove that out of date thing, because it's inaccurate and misleading.


Originally Posted by zgwortz View Post
I have at least a dozen addons I used to use, but don't use anymore because I won't check that checkbox -- NO addon is so necessary that I need to destabilize my game for it. Yours is now added to the list -- without the libraries included, you've relegated your addons to being out of date no matter how recently you may have updated them -- you may as well never bother updating the API version of your addons anymore because you can't use them anyway without enabling out of date addons.


None of us care if you use or don't use any of our addons. In fact, you know what, I might as well switch the Writ Crafter over to that too. Makes it a lot easier for me, and might make my Tempering Alloys worth just a bit more.


Originally Posted by zgwortz View Post
And if, as you say, the addons were made "for ourselves"... then I suggest you do what I've done with mine - write it for yourself and DON'T bother releasing it here for other people unless you're willing to put in the time and effort to support it properly.


You're right. We don't do it purely for ourselves. It would be much easier to simply keep the addons we make private. Settings? No need if it's just for myself. No need for a UI, bug support, and more. We release it because we want to help make other people's lives easier. It doesn't mean we want to or will bend over backwards to satisfy entitled users.
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09/22/18, 02:05 PM   #15
zgwortz
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Originally Posted by Dolgubon View Post
They don't. Seriously. We've been trying to get ZOS to either change or remove that out of date thing, because it's inaccurate and misleading.
No? Why do I get multiple UI Errors whenever I turn on Out of Date addons, then? And that's *with* me using Minion regularly to update all my addons. I can just imagine how many errors might pop up with a user who hasn't been doing that who then turns on Out of Date addons?

Yes, many addon authors are pretty good about updating their addons and fixing the bugs which happen when the API changes, and release their updated addons as soon as the update hits the servers, but many DO NOT. The last time I had Out of Date addons turned on when a major update hit (The Morrowind release, I think), maybe 5 addons were up to date, and half of the rest seriously broke - popping up UI errors in the middle of combat and all kinds of other times, and I couldn't even get into my inventory. I've never turned on Out of Date addons since, except to prove to myself there were *still* addons in my list which caused errors.

I have several friends who run all the time with Out of Date addons because they believe they need addon X to play. I'm constantly hearing stability issues with the game from them when the game has a significant update - including some actual game crashes, and 90% of the time when they investigate, they find some obscure out of date addon which is causing the problem.

(Up to date addons can have stability issues too, but they're far less likely than out of date ones...)

So it's wishful thinking at best to believe that everyone can turn on Out of Date errors without any worries.

Originally Posted by Dolgubon View Post
You're right. We don't do it purely for ourselves. It would be much easier to simply keep the addons we make private. Settings? No need if it's just for myself. No need for a UI, bug support, and more. We release it because we want to help make other people's lives easier. It doesn't mean we want to or will bend over backwards to satisfy entitled users.
Providing the libraries in your addons isn't "bending over backwards". It's releasing a program. Imagine if ESO came with installation instructions which included downloading a bunch of libraries and installing them manually. That's effectively what you're doing. Minion was created to make it easier to install addons -- and you're canceling out all of that advantage. You're NOT making people's lives easier if they have to enable out of date addons and download and install a bunch of libraries *just* to make your addon run.

I fully understand that it's hard to do this. And I appreciate all of those efforts, truly I do. I don't play often enough or have the time to properly release or support my own addons, which is why I never released them. And that's the fundamental difference here between our points of view: If I *did* release my addons, I would feel a responsibility to keep them up to date and fully working - or to pass them on to someone else to maintain. And that would include making them work for people without going through hoops installing standalone libraries or enabling out of date addons. I'd feel the same responsibility for an addon, or a program I wrote for pay, or any of the other code I've written and released to the public.

And yes, you might consider me an "entitled user", even though I'm actually not asking any of you to do anything other than avoid bad programming practices. I just hope others who are reading this might give some thought to the impact of their actions and take some responsibilty for them instead.
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09/22/18, 02:17 PM   #16
Kyoma
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It's funny tho, often enough these out-of-date addons that are producing errors are actually due to a library that needs to be updated for all of them.
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09/22/18, 02:46 PM   #17
zgwortz
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Originally Posted by Kyoma View Post
It's funny tho, often enough these out-of-date addons that are producing errors are actually due to a library that needs to be updated for all of them.
Does that really happen often in practice? Isn't that why we have LibStub - so the most recent version of the library encountered is the actually used one? Or are you suggesting the bugs are because an older version is then overloaded with a newer version? I don't doubt that a poorly designed library upgrade could cause some problems like that, but I would expect that to be a very rare case in practice.

Perhaps some compromise solution could be developed here: include all the common libraries which are stable and rarely need updates in all addons which need them, and then if there are particularly unusual libraries which get updated often, require only *those* libraries to be manually downloaded as standalone addons. Perhaps those types of libraries shouldn't even be designated as "libraries" -- just say that Addon X simply depends on Addon Y. (There are a number of these cases already...)
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09/22/18, 03:42 PM   #18
sirinsidiator
 
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This happens a lot more often than you think, since most addon authors aren't professional programmers with years of experience, and even then it happens. "Upgrading" libraries the old LibStub way is very complicated and if you messed up in some old version of it, it will cause unexpected and unfixable bugs for years, since the old version won't just disappear in most cases. Using the new facilities that the game offers, ensures that only one version of the addon is loaded into memory, which avoids this problem entirely.
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09/22/18, 04:21 PM   #19
zgwortz
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Originally Posted by sirinsidiator View Post
This happens a lot more often than you think, since most addon authors aren't professional programmers with years of experience, and even then it happens. "Upgrading" libraries the old LibStub way is very complicated and if you messed up in some old version of it, it will cause unexpected and unfixable bugs for years, since the old version won't just disappear in most cases. Using the new facilities that the game offers, ensures that only one version of the addon is loaded into memory, which avoids this problem entirely.
Possibly. I'm well aware that many addon programmers don't have the experience to do libraries right, but that lends itself more to an argument that we need better library programming practices instead of poorer addon programming practices.

One fairly easy solution would be to make sure that all libraries have a current maintainer who is responsible for updating at least the version numbers with every API release. If all the out of date libraries (including LibStub) had current API versions, nobody would have to enable Out of Date addons. I would then find it useful for Minion to be updated to have a dependency mechanism - if Addon A needs Addon B (a library, or other addon), it would automatically install Addon B if and only if Addon B is not Out of Date for the current API version. By making Minion require a dependency to be up to date, it encourages the addon author to seek out the library maintainer and request an update, instead of propagating the problem.

Another solution (fairly common in the wider world of software, but perhaps more complex than ZOS and/or addon developers would want here...) would be for ZOS to establish a certification mechanism which would it allow it to load an addon automatically for a given API version. Certs would be generated through testing on PTS - run your addon without triggering UI errors and it will generate a cert file. Certs could be uploaded to ESOUI without requiring a new addon update, and Minion would install the most recent Cert (if any) with the addon. (In addition to helping the library problem, this would also be a boon to other addon developers who wouldn't necessarily need to update the addon package file when a new API is released - they simply upload a new Cert.)

There are lots of other possible solutions. My desire isn't to force people to do things necessarily the old way - I'm just trying to avoid a new approach which is actually worse.
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09/22/18, 04:29 PM   #20
zgwortz
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Hmmn... thinking about it further, the cert mechanism wouldn't even have to be ZOS generated (they'd need to accept a cert file as a substitute for the API Version, but that's all they'd need to do on their side...) Cert files could be generated by any addon developer with a simple program, or even automatically by ESOUI if enough users mark the addon as "Safe for API version XXX". That would allow easy support of older addons which still work. Just trying to think outside the box a bit.
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ESOUI » AddOns » AddOn Help/Support » some addons wont work

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