Quantcast ZoS: Make Titles etcpp. readonly and not changeable by addons - ESOUI
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07/09/17, 02:18 AM   #1
jpdouble69
Join Date: May 2015
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Exclamation Inform the users about all addon functions and let them choose

Dear Traveller,

this post is about addons that have have hidden functions

These functions i am talking about
- have nothing to do with the purpose the addon it is installed for by the user
- are not mentioned in the Addon Info pages
- are not explained in the Change Logs or Release Notes
- are enabled by default
- can not be found in the addon settings and therefor not turned off.

I discovered a function called "CustomTitles" just recently and was surprised that authors of well-know addons eg. like SkyShards, LoreBooks, Destinations, AdvancedFilters, LUI Extended,... have this function included in all their addons.

So i ask the authors to look at this and give users a choice and control of function that are hidden.

So far i got replies from authors that have included function like this to their addons. Here is a quick summary:
- "Do not install the addon if you don't like it" - Well the user should be informed in the first place and have an option to chose for functions like these.
- "Delete the responsible files in the addon folders" - The function comes back after an update or (re-install)
- "I am the Dev and i did it that way, period." - Be open for changes and care about the users.
- "You are jealous" - No, users want to be informed in the first place.
- "There is other and worse stuff installed by addons" - Tell us, nobody likes software on their computer or smartphones w/o an optiont to not install it or disabling it. Same with hidden addon stuff.


I am writing this because it is important to treat users honestly, let them know in detail what is included and then let the enlightened user make a choice.


Thanks for reading you and good night!



/edit: Original post and title
Hello Zenimax,

i recently learned that there is an addon/lib called "CustomLibTitles" that allows titles to be overwritten.

Since its introduction this lib has been included into the most big addons:
SkyShards
LoreBooks
Destinations
LuiExtended
AwesomeGuildStore
RaidNotifier Updated

just to name a few.

In their release notes some addons mentioned the addition of this Lib, but most did not.
Also this LibCustomTitles is enabled by default, the user has no opt-out option and nothing is found in any addon settings to disable it.

Changeing titles (and maybe other stuff) can be very misleading - not only to new players - and it could also be used in a harmful and insulting manner.

ZoS, i want you to look into this and make changes. Don't let addons change such things on the fly w/o the permission of the user.

Addons have to get the permission of the user who install it and have a setting to turn it on (default behaviour off).

Or make Titles etc. read-only by default so prevent such things.

Last edited by jpdouble69 : 07/13/17 at 02:22 AM.
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07/09/17, 05:46 AM   #2
sirinsidiator
 
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You are aware that you do not have to use any of these addons and if you do, you use them at your own risk? If you haven't done so, I suggest you read the add-on terms.

To add a bit of backstory to this specific library, it was created at a time when there where almost no addon authors left and the few that were still around started to get very frustrated because they took care of maintaining the most popular addons while getting nothing but complains from entitled users in return.
In order to vent a bit of that frustration and give us a sort of "reward", we collectivley decided that we want this library so we can mess with users and reward ourselves for our hard work. :P

The titles are curated and there is no intention to abuse this in a harmful or insulting way. Should that ever happen, you can rest assured that the lib will disappear from these addons in no time. So relax and accept it as it is.
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07/09/17, 09:15 AM   #3
Rhyono
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While I understand what you're trying to say, you're not thinking it through all the way: addons do all sorts of things far more dangerous (if misused) all of the time. If you had to manually approve everything even more so than that, most addons would have dozens of permissions that need approved and the addon size and development (for many) would end up being more checkboxes than addon.

If you want to remove the library:
  • Open an offending addon.
  • Open the .txt file.
  • Delete the line that references it, such as: Libs/LibCustomTitles/LibCustomTitles.lua
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07/09/17, 05:14 PM   #4
Dolgubon
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In addition to what everyone else said, while it is of course possible for ZOS to hide it if they really wanted to, it would probably require them to rewrite quite a bit of stuff. Currently the titles are just UI stuff, and pretty much anything in the UI is global.
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07/09/17, 06:37 PM   #5
Anceane
 
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There is no offense, no exploit, no bad behavior caused by that addon, beside visual cool title on some of us.

I do not see at all why suddenly this could bother you.

I hope that ZoS will not take such a move just because of one

Personally, i may have encounter 1 or 2 on NA server, and i am playing since beta. And even if i admit i was quite a bit *grins* jealous of this, i truly enjoy to see those. Kind of good RP for me.
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07/11/17, 03:52 AM   #6
jpdouble69
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CustomTitles brings no functionality other than that and is not needed.
It is solely included by the addons authors to have their own "cool" title and include friends or beggars. Not sure if it has been used in a harmfull manner yet, but the potential is there.

Not sure if getting whispers is the right purpose
Originally Posted by Ayantir
Just had my first " How did you get that title ? "
So to all addon authors: DO NOT sneakily include stuff to your addon that has nothing to do with your addon, DO NOT enable it by default AND offer an option to turn it on (default off). You are doing it the wrong way so that ZoS sooner or later has to react.
Well i guess the addon others did the sneaky way on purpose - what youd be their benefit if it is disbaled by default and has to be turned on, right?

Include it, add an option to enable it in the seetings and let the users decide if they want your custom tiltes to be displayed.


Originally Posted by Anceane View Post
Personally, i may have encounter 1 or 2 on NA server, and i am playing since beta. And even if i admit i was quite a bit *grins* jealous of this, i truly enjoy to see those. Kind of good RP for me.
CustomLib was started in March 2016 and has been around since, not since beta. It has nothing to do with RP, since only a few "control" these titles as you may know:
Originally Posted by Anceane
My Account: @Anceane
The title I would like to replace: Volunteer
The title I would like: Dark Emerald
Well not surprised you are biased but it is sad to see you and the posters above been totally fine with the sneaky way CustomLib is distributed w/o any way to let the user decide.

Make it transparent, have a place where all interested players can add their CustomTitles and i am pretty sure it is fine.

Last edited by jpdouble69 : 07/11/17 at 04:12 AM.
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07/11/17, 03:57 AM   #7
Baertram
 
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So what is your real problem with this? You want to get your own title too?
You just want to ruin roleplay cuz ZOs lacks the ability to help the roleplayers?
You don't like addons and you want to punsh the addond evs in the face because they want to have their funny way of recognition?

I mean, you could just disable your addons (Settings available already) or delete the file of libCustomTitle from the addons manually.
You are the only one that is complaining so this would be the best solution imo.

There is no possibility to harm others by titles...
If you want to complain and are bored, go and collect stupid user names on the servers and report them to ZOs...
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07/11/17, 04:16 AM   #8
sirinsidiator
 
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Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Not sure if it has been used in a harmfull manner yet, but the potential is there.
You seem to misunderstand something here. The potential to do something harmful is given with any addon as is. Addons themselves are much more dangerous than a bundled library in that regard. I could for example slip some code into one of my addons which sells all your equipment to an NPC vendor automatically and then several others from the inventory so you can't buy them back and nobody will notice it until it is too late. Nobody reads every single line of code when an addon is updated, and it's your own responsibility to check for things like that before you use them. Libraries on the other hand have to be included into a new addon version by an author first, so in theory they get checked for malicious things by them before they are uploaded.


Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Include it, add an option to enable it in the seetings and let the users decide if they want your custom tiltes to be displayed.
As Baertram said. If you do not want them, just scan your addon folder for LibCustomTitles.lua and delete the files. That's the way to opt-out.
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07/11/17, 05:23 AM   #9
Anceane
 
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Holy cow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before accusing people to be biaised, check better : i asked for a title but never got one and i respect the author's addon, and since i have worked my name differently to get almost what i wanted.

And yes even with no title i am totally against you and your stupid jealousy. (sorry if i cross the limite, but you got what you deserve. You are just someone envious trying to ennoy people.)

Suddenly the addon is not trouble if you can have your own title !!!! way to go!!


Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
CustomLib was started in March 2016 and has been around since, not since beta. It has nothing to do with RP, since only a few "control" these titles as you may know:

Well not surprised you are biased but it is sad to see you and the posters above been totally fine with the sneaky way CustomLib is distributed w/o any way to let the user decide.

Make it transparent, have a place where all interested players can add their CustomTitles and i am pretty sure it is fine.
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07/11/17, 06:23 AM   #10
decay2
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Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
CustomTitles brings no functionality other than that and is not needed.
It is solely included by the addons authors to have their own "cool" title and include friends or beggars. Not sure if it has been used in a harmfull manner yet, but the potential is there.
Addons generally have the potential to be used in a harmful manner, but I bet most people would be very against removing them from the game.
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07/11/17, 10:25 AM   #11
jpdouble69
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Originally Posted by sirinsidiator View Post
You seem to misunderstand something here. The potential to do something harmful is given with any addon as is.
What is my misunderstanding, the user has to accept everything that is given and has no right to speak?

@all
The point of my post is clear: Including functionalities like CustomTitles to addons like SkyShards, LoreBooks etc. w/o informing the users and giving them the option to choose is the wrong approch.

Addon authors advising people to delete files on their computer after installation (and redoing so after every update) and labeling this as the opt-out option there is are just showing that they don't care about a transparent way to handle such things.

Please put your heads together and find a solution to give users the freedom to choose. Thanks!

@Baertram @Anceane: Please try todiscuss in a constructive manner on the topic.
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07/11/17, 10:42 AM   #12
Ayantir
 
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The point of my post is clear: Including functionalities like CustomTitles to addons like SkyShards, LoreBooks etc. w/o informing the users and giving them the option to choose is the wrong approch.
No. I'm the dev. You're not.


Please put your heads together and find a solution to give users the freedom to choose. Thanks!
Adding options will triple the size of the library, and enable stuff that I don't want to enable for a lib. The reflexion is already done.

You don't have to discuss, the answer is no, and it's written in changelog

PPS: There is much more in your addons folder, but you don't care because it's a bit more hidden.


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07/11/17, 10:58 AM   #13
sirinsidiator
 
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Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
What is my misunderstanding, the user has to accept everything that is given and has no right to speak?
Let's see...

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Hello Zenimax,
Why complain to zenimax? This is about addons. So maybe complain to the authors first?

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
In their release notes some addons mentioned the addition of this Lib, but most did not.
The content of the changelog is completely up to the author. There aren't any guidelines on what it should contain and authors are not required to even write one.

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Also this LibCustomTitles is enabled by default, the user has no opt-out option and nothing is found in any addon settings to disable it.
The content of the addons is also up to the author. They can add and leave out whatever they want as long as it does not violate the TOS. Having a feature like custom titles and not adding an ingame setting does not violate the TOS in any way and the author(s) clearly stated that it works as intended.

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Changeing titles (and maybe other stuff) can be very misleading - not only to new players - and it could also be used in a harmful and insulting manner.
Same can be said for character names. Should ZOS disable displaying names because of that?

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
ZoS, i want you to look into this and make changes. Don't let addons change such things on the fly w/o the permission of the user.
Again, why ZOS? And as explained earlier, you gave your full permission to let the addon change your UI in that way when you installed an addon which contains the lib.

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Addons have to get the permission of the user who install it and have a setting to turn it on (default behaviour off).
No? Just don't install it if you don't like it.

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Or make Titles etc. read-only by default so prevent such things.
...

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
CustomTitles brings no functionality other than that and is not needed.
There is a lot of stuff in addons that is not needed for one user, but others want it. Can't please everyone.


It's fine to voice your opinion, but what you are doing here is a) attacking authors, b) being entitled, and c) not constructive.
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07/11/17, 11:10 AM   #14
psypanda
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thank you jpdouble69 I almost forgot to update the lib in LUI
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07/12/17, 04:54 AM   #15
jpdouble69
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Ayantir, thank you for your statement.

Trippeling the code seems to be an issue but isn't it worth the effort for a transparent approach?
I am pretty sure you thought about it while developing CustomLib - now the train is rolling and CustomLib is included (copy, paste, edited, done) in many many small and big addons.
The vast majority of users do not know about it and what i get as feedback here a lot of addon authors are fine with it ("Do not install what you don't like even if we don't tell you it's there").

Unfortunately beside your own addons that way you lost control about the usage and distribution of CustomLib.

Indicating that there might be more going on unnoticed in the addon folder is worrying - nobody seems to care as long as it stays hidden

Originally Posted by Ayantir View Post
No. I'm the dev. You're not.


Adding options will triple the size of the library, and enable stuff that I don't want to enable for a lib. The reflexion is already done.

You don't have to discuss, the answer is no, and it's written in changelog

PPS: There is much more in your addons folder, but you don't care because it's a bit more hidden.


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07/12/17, 09:24 AM   #16
sirinsidiator
 
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Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Unfortunately beside your own addons that way you lost control about the usage and distribution of CustomLib.
That's not how libraries work here on ESOUI. If somebody changes the code of a library in a way that impacts the functionality and the author of the library reports it, the offending addon will be removed from the site by admins. Every reputable author will try to avoid having his addon removed. If you download an addon from a well known author with a good reputation, you won't find any customizations in the libs.

Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Indicating that there might be more going on unnoticed in the addon folder is worrying - nobody seems to care as long as it stays hidden
I can guarantee you that you don't know most features the bigger addons offer. That's what Ayantir is referring to. Addons are hobby projects we make in our free time, so of course not everything gets documented. Besides you have the full Lua source code available. There is no better transparency than that. If you don't want or can't read the Lua code, you will have to trust the author of the addon and if you can't trust the author, you should not download and install their addons. It's easy as that.

And while it's true that you have your right to voice your opinion, it's also true that authors have the right to theirs and can ignore your requests.
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07/12/17, 09:26 AM   #17
Rhyono
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Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Trippeling the code seems to be an issue but isn't it worth the effort for a transparent approach?
Seeing as we all do this for free: no, it's definitely not worth the time or effort to us.

However, if you think making it possible to disable this functionality is a worthwhile endeavor, you wouldn't mind taking it up yourself? I'm sure Ayantir won't mind if you take a copy of it, change the version to be higher and clear out all of the titles in there, so that your version will supersede and remove the functionality from all of the addons.
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07/12/17, 12:09 PM   #18
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I wasn't trying to unfriendly. That's just the way I write and I'm no native English speaker. I tried to contribute to your topic and have shown you 2 ways to opt-out the library.
It's up to you if you ccept them or keep on fighting against windmills.

As I said: You are not forced to use the addons and we are not forced to fullfill every request and think about every think that COULD and MIGHT happen.
You could learn coding for example and update the library with an option, use your free time to code instead of complaining. This would be great
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07/13/17, 02:07 AM   #19
jpdouble69
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Updated the original post - if there is a way to edit the title let me know to remove ZoS in it.

Good night!

/edit: Found it, title changed - hope it is better now

Last edited by jpdouble69 : 07/13/17 at 02:21 AM.
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07/13/17, 04:09 AM   #20
Anceane
 
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Originally Posted by jpdouble69 View Post
Updated the original post - if there is a way to edit the title let me know to remove ZoS in it.

Good night!

/edit: Found it, title changed - hope it is better now
Just a side note, as i want to be honnest : after checking more the addon, following your post, it appears that in fact my title existed since at least may 2017, and i did not know. So thank you, i am happy to show my new title in game

(no irony nore bad spirit, i just say what i think, and i am really happy)
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