Guild Hall Button : Group, Guild & Friends : Elder Scrolls Online AddOns

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Updated: 05/11/20 02:06 AM

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Compatibility:	Greymoor (6.0.5) Harrowstorm (5.3.4) Dragonhold (5.2.5) Scalebreaker (5.1.5) Elsweyr (5.0.5)
Updated:	05/11/20 02:06 AM
Created:	04/15/18 10:31 AM
Monthly downloads:	1,219
Total downloads:	36,979
Favorites:	54
MD5:
Categories:	Group, Guild & Friends, Homestead

6.0.5

Guild Hall Button Popular! (More than 5000 hits)

Version: 2.1.0

by: BoarGules [More]

Guild Hall Button

by Boar Gules
[email protected]

Many players of Elder Scrolls Online(r) have hankered after guild halls of the sort provided by Guild Wars.

When Zenimax announced Homestead, the ESO housing framework, many guilds immediately co-opted it as a way to set up guild halls. Typically, though not always, the guild hall is the guild leader's primary residence. Often, such houses are not furnished as residences at all: they have full catering facilities, crafting stations, and other things you would not expect to find in a private home, however wealthy the owner might be.

You can quite easily travel to such a guild hall: simply pick your guild leader's name out of the guild roster and select Visit Primary Residence from the context menu.

The Guild Hall Button add-on does little more than that. It is a simple way to reduce the number of mouse-clicks required, and also expresses the intention of the guilds that such houses are not residences at all, but guild halls.

To Install

Most people use Minion to install add-ons, but if you want to do a manual install, that is very straightforward. Open the zipfile and you will see a folder called GuildHallButton. Extract this folder to your ESO add-ons folder.

* On a PC that will typically be C:\Users\username\Documents\Elder Scrolls Online\live\AddOns. If you have installed ESO on another drive, or have chosen another location for your Documents folder, you will presumably know what to substitute for C:.
* On a Mac that will typically be ~/Documents/Elder Scrolls Online/live/AddOns.

Once you have done this you should have a new folder in AddOns called GuildHallButton. There should be 11 files and 2 subfolders inside it:
* GuildHallButton.lua and Version.lua
* GuildHallButton.txt and GuildHallButton.xml
* this documentation in two forms (GuildHallButton.pdf and readme.txt)
* 5 screenshots (.jpg)
* subfolders lang (for internationalization) and lib (for library files).

Operation

Following a successful install, if you press G for Guild, you should see Guild Hall shown on the bottom left of your Guild home screen. Press the button Travel to Guild Hall and you will be moved to the "primary residence" of that guild's leader.

Configuration

This add-on was intended to be zero-configuration software. But some guilds have castellan-officers, and it is their primary residence that is the guild hall, not the guild leader's, and this situation needs to be manually configured. Otherwise, pressing the button will either take you to the wrong place, or simply yield the warning The house you attempted to visit is unavailable.

It is not uncommon for a single management team to run a group of related guilds with a shared guild hall. But, according to ESO rules, a player may be leader of only one guild, so the shared guild hall will not always belong to the leader of the guild you are in.
An add-on cannot discover this situation from the game API, because from the game's point of view, there is no such thing as a guild hall. Even as a player, you can only find this out by reading your guild's message of the day, website, or Facebook page. In such cases, you need to enter the information manually.

Fortunately, configuration is simple. Start by going to the game menu Settings | Addons | Guild Hall Button.

This will list your guilds, with three fairly self-explanatory option settings for each.
* Override default guild hall. Set this to on if you need to configure the Guild Hall Button. This will enable the remaining 2 settings:
* Castellan officer. This is the name of the guild officer who is the formal owner of the guild hall. The default value is (guild leader) because that is the usual situation. A drop-down list will offer you a list of the senior officers in the guild to choose from. If the name you want is not on the list, see Extras below.
* Name of guild hall. The default value for this is (principal residence) and you will rarely need to change it. A drop-down list will offer the houses likely to be guild halls: not studio apartments or rooms at taverns. If the house you want is not on the list, see Extras below.

Leaving and Joining Guilds

When you leave a guild or join a new one, the configuration screen will not show your changed membership until the next UI reload. This happens when you log out or issue the /reloadui command.

You can choose to have the Guild Hall Button do an automatic UI reload when you leave or join a guild. Then the configuration screen will always reflect all of your guild current memberships.

But switching this on will mean that if you join or leave two guilds in succession, you will get two /reloadui commands. This may not be what you want.
If in doubt, leave these options switched off.

Error Reporting

If something unexpected happens in an ESO add-on, the game will normally display a UI Error window with the traceback of the code leading up to the Lua error.

Tracebacks are vital to the developer. Without them, solving the problem is close to impossible. But they are meaningless to the end-user. For this reason, this add-on traps and stores the traceback, and simply issues a message saying that what you were trying to do did not work, and that you can retrieve the traceback using the command /guildhall traceback.

You can do this at any time, so that you can compose a bug report when it suits you, instead of having to choose between composing a bug report at that very moment, or closing the UI Error window and destroying the evidence. The Guild Hall Button stores your last 9 tracebacks, numbered 1 to 9. Traceback 1 is the most recent.

Extras

Bypassing the Settings menu

You can use slash commands to bypass the Settings menu. You may need to do this if the drop-down lists on the configuration screen don't show you the player or the house that you want. It may also be helpful in special situations, such as when playing on the Public Test Server, where it can happen that other add-ons are not always be up to date.

Start by typing the command /guildhall list and you will see a dialogue box showing the guilds you are a member of.

Now suppose that the guild hall of Rangiest Rangers is not the guild leader's primary residence but is instead the primary residence of castellan-officer @Slartibartfast. Type this command:

/guildhall 2 @Slartibartfast

That will take you to the guild hall, so that you can be sure that your configuration is correct. After that, the next time you press the guild hall button, it will take you to the right place without having to be told a second time. If you see the warning Can't identify @slartibartfast as a guild member, it indicates you have typed the name wrong. Names are case-sensitive, and the leading @ is required.

To reverse this configuration, simply do the same thing, but supply the guild leader's name.

For people who dislike taking their fingers from the keyboard, you can also use the command /guildhall (alternative spelling /gh), without a player name, to take you to the guild hall, and you can optionally type a number between 1 and 5 (for example /guildhall 2) to specify which guild. If you omit the number then the command takes you to the guild selected on the guild home screen.

A guild leader whose primary residence is a guild hall will generally have other, more modest accommodation elsewhere. If you have permission to visit one of those other houses, you can go there using the following command:

/guildhall number name

where number is the number of the guild as shown above (not optional), and name is the name of the house, or part of it. For example, typing /gh 1 sleek is enough to identify Sleek Creek. The name you type must be long enough to match exactly one house.

You can combine the two forms of the /guildhall command to permanently set the guild hall for a guild to something other than a primary residence, for example:

/guildhall 2 @Slartibartfast sleek

though it is unlikely that you would want to do this in normal circumstances, because that would mean that guild 2's guild hall could only be reached by using the Guild Hall Button, or another add-on with similar facilities, because there would be no way for guild members to go there using the game's normal UI.

Visiting houses other than guild halls

If you want the ability to go to any house of any player, but not set it as a nonstandard guild hall, use the command /visit instead of /guildhall. This was an extra requested by some users and it is disabled by default. After enabling it in the configuration screen, you can use this command:

/visit @Slartibartfast sleek

which will simply take you to @Slartibartfast's house at Sleek Creek but won't affect guild hall settings. If you don't specify a house then the /visit command will take you to that player's principal residence. If you specify a house but not a player the command will take you to your house of that name.

Version checking

The command /gh version will show a dialogue box giving
* The version of the add-on. The version numbers follow the principles of semantic versioning, fully described at semver.org.
* The version of the game API that is currently running. This version is determined by Zenimax and generally changes after a major update. If this number is higher than an add-on supports, then the game will mark that add-on as out of date.
* The versions of the API that the add-on supports. Add-ons can support two successive API versions. This can be helpful when the Public Test Server is running a later version of the API than the live game. This happens for some weeks before each major update.

Translation

If you use and like Guild Hall Button and you would like to have it in your own language, please volunteer by emailing [email protected] You would not be letting yourself in for a lot of work: the add-on, being a very simple one, needs only a few dozen translations.

2.1.0 Positioned Guild Hall Button controls relative to the View Bids button. The static positioning previously used was causing collisions and no amount of tweaking could fix it. Eliminated a stray debug trace that accidentally got released.
2.0.0 Send the output of /guildhall list and /guildhall version to a dialogue box instead of the chat window. This was imposed by the fact that any other add-on may now require LibDebugLogger and that diverts all messages sent to the chat window to a log that the user may have made invisible, or disabled. Fixed validation failure in slash commands of the form /gh @user house. This was always invalid (guild number is required) but was not trapped for and led to an unhandled exception. New API version 100031. Major version number because the behaviour of two slash commands has changed.
1.10.1 Remove remaining call to LibStub. Update minimum supported versions of LibSlashCommander (36) and LibAddonMenu-2.0 (30). New API version 100030.
1.10.0 Further changes to embedding of library add-ons in line with new library version facilities. Will now use LibSlashCommander if available, but will not fail if it is not. Dependency is satisfied by version 6 of this library in API version 100029 but not in API version 100030 (coming soon with Harrowstorm).
1.9.1 Amend /guildhall and /visit commands to accept a house name substring that contains a space. Changes to embedding of library add-ons in line with new library version facilities introduced by ZOS with Summerset. Now requires LibAddonMenu-2.0 revision 30. Dependency is not satisfied by earlier versions. New API version 100029.
1.9.0 Not released
1.8.3 New API version 100027. Elsweyr.
1.8.2 Fix display of candidate castellan officers in guilds where members don't have ranks
1.8.1 Fix to command /visit without a player name defaults to current player
1.8.0 Command /visit without a player name defaults to current player
1.7.4 New API version 100026. Cosmetic change of positioning of button on guild screen required by changed layout.
1.7.3 New API version 100025. No substantive changes.
1.7.2 Will not overwrite a slash command that is already assigned
1.7.1 Command /visit without a house name defaults to player's principal residence
1.7.0
-- Compatible with Murkmire
-- New optional slash command /visit
-- Hints provided for /guildhall subcommands traceback, list, version
1.6.1 Eliminate spurious failure message on joining a guild
1.6.0
-- Fixes to a pervasive bug between leaving/joining a guild and the next /reloadui that in the worst case led to a corrupted SavedVariables file, which just kept the defect alive past /reloadui. (Warm thanks to RavenMind for a comprehensive bug report.)
-- Measures (inspired by Python) to stop stack traces from leaking out to the player as a UI Error window. Code defects are hard to avoid, but they should be handled more gracefully than popping up a debug window on a player's screen.
-- New /guildhall subcommands: /gh version and /gh traceback.
-- Fix to the configuration of house names.
-- Better validation to prevent the configuration of a house override without castellan name.
-- Better validation to prevent a castellan's name differing in case from the real player name.
-- Option to do an automatic /reloadui after leaving/joining a guild, to refresh the config screen.
-- Internal changes: further preparation for gettext-style internationalization support.
1.5.6 Partial rollback of changeset 259.
1.5.5 Additional misconfiguration trap
1.5.4 Cosmetic change (trace in chat window removed)
1.5.3 Wolfhunter compatibility. Update to API version. Largely internal changes: preparation for gettext-style internationalization support; start of migration to more robust error-handling scheme.
1.5.2 Not released.

Archived Files (3)

File Name	Version	Size	Uploader	Date
Guild Hall Button	2.0.0	396kB	BoarGules	05/01/20 03:22 PM
Guild Hall Button	1.10.1	289kB	BoarGules	03/01/20 10:56 AM
Guild Hall Button	1.10.0	289kB	BoarGules	01/28/20 02:35 PM

Comment Options

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05/11/20, 02:17 AM

BoarGules

Forum posts: 32

File comments: 20

Uploads: 1

Re: Re: When you have time to look - the debug text is still posting to chat for me?

Originally Posted by belboz

Originally Posted by Sp00sty

The output text to chat only started this AM login for me, wasn't there yesterday evening. I don't know if MINION didn't grab the update properly or not.

This is happening with every character load and not from using any slash commands and I have every extra setting inside turned OFF.

This was, as you suspected, a screen trace that escaped notice. It is fixed in version 2.1.0, uploaded just now.

05/11/20, 02:14 AM
BoarGules Forum posts: 32 File comments: 20 Uploads: 1	Update: new version 2.1.0 to address collision of controls I’ve uploaded version 2.1.0 with a fix for the problem you reported, of a collision with the View Bids button on the guild home screen. Thank you for the XML, but you will notice I haven’t used it. Not because I have NIH syndrome, but because testing revealed that tweaking the static placement of the controls only moves the problem: The static placement always was an uneasy compromise (with enough shortcomings to attract comment), which the View Bids button finally broke, because it. does not have a fixed position on the guild home screen. So the only way out, is to position the Guild Hall Button relative to the ZOS controls on the screen. That was no surprise: it was what I wanted to do originally, but did not know how. This made it necessary for me to find out.

05/05/20, 11:01 AM

belboz

Forum posts: 0

File comments: 6

Uploads: 0

Re: When you have time to look - the debug text is still posting to chat for me?

Originally Posted by Sp00sty

Code:

Blackbriar Barter Co retaining @bbcguild: rank 3

After I found that it was Guild Hall Button I decided to go ahead and uninstall from MINION and let it re-install, no change. I then uninstalled again and did a manual install, still no change. I deleted saved variables each time. I disabled LibDebugLogger and still no change.

It is an annoyance but it doesn't seem to affect gameplay, but if there is a quick manual code comment-out I can perform until you have time to look at it would be appreciated.

It is going to fire at every character login and is several pages (chat windows) long and during crafting writs I may be changing characters several times in a row.

It is annoying if you relog a lot (I do) - a quickfix is changeing line 1067 in
GuildHallBotton.lua

from:
d(guild_name.." retaining "..member.name..": rank "..member.rank)
to:
-- d(guild_name.." retaining "..member.name..": rank "..member.rank)

as you pointed out is was some debug message that had not been disabled.

05/02/20, 02:13 PM

Sp00sty

Forum posts: 62

File comments: 157

Uploads: 0

When you have time to look - the debug text is still posting to chat for me?

Send the output of /guildhall list and /guildhall version to a dialogue box instead of the chat window.

Code:

Blackbriar Barter Co retaining @bbcguild: rank 3

Last edited by Sp00sty : 05/02/20 at 02:16 PM.

05/01/20, 03:51 PM

BoarGules

Forum posts: 32

File comments: 20

Uploads: 1

Originally Posted by Kenza

I have a suggestion/request~ Could we get this?

And another request, could it default to the name of the house instead of 'Guild Name Guild Hall'? Or is it not(easily) possible to detect that information?

Thank you for this wonderful little addon!

Sorry about the very late reply. I've just moved to France and migration tends to upend priorities. Lockdown too.

I only noticed the other day that the Bids button interfered with the layout, when I was looking over my wife's shoulder. Only guild leaders see that button, so it never came up in my testing because I'm not one. It bothered me the moment I saw it, and it clearly needs attention. It's not in the latest upgrade because (I'm told) it's not always present and so is hard for me to test.

The name of the guild hall does appear as you suggest, but only after you have gone there once. That is because the API offers no way to query for the name of the guild hall. Recall that, as far as ESO is concerned, there is no such thing as a guild hall, only players' houses, and there is no way to get a list of a player's houses (for reasons that I can understand, inconvenient though it is). So the only way to find out the name of the guild hall is to wait until the user goes there (using the button, of course) and update it then. Code along the lines of "Oh, user pressed the button and here I am. Where am I, exactly?" Mostly people don't notice, or do, but forget, because the defect is transient. Full marks for the proofreader's eye. Alas, that bit of the code is mostly smoke and mirrors, and I haven't discovered a way to do better.

03/02/20, 12:07 PM

Kenza

Forum posts: 31

File comments: 174

Uploads: 1

I have a suggestion/request~ Could we get this?

Warning: Spoiler

Here's the edited code from GuildHallButton.xml to do it:

Warning: Spoiler

Code:

<!--  $Revision: 365 $-->
<GuiXml>
  <Controls>
    <TopLevelControl name="GuildHallButtonFrame" hidden="true">
      <Dimensions x="200" y="200" />
      <Anchor point="BOTTOM" relativeTo="ZO_GuildSharedInfo" relativePoint="BOTTOM" offsetX="120" offsetY="720" />
      <Controls>
        <Label name="$(parent)Label" width="200" height="25" font="ZoFontWinH3" inheritAlpha="true"  color="FFFFFF"
            wrapMode="TRUNCATE" verticalAlignment="TOP" horizontalAlignment="CENTER"  text="GUILD HALL" modifyTextType="UPPERCASE">
          <Anchor point="TOP" relativeTo="$(parent)" relativePoint="TOP" offsetY="30"/>
        </Label>
        <!--  "esoui/art/store/pchousing/pc_collections_housing_craglornruin.dds"-->
        <Texture name="GuildHallButtonFrameGuildHallIcon" textureFile="esoui\art\icons\mapkey\mapkey_housing.dds">
          <Dimensions x="75" y="75"/>
          <Anchor point="BOTTOM" relativeTo="$(parent)" relativePoint="BOTTOM" offsetY="-65"/>
        </Texture>
        <!--Label name="GuildHallButtonFrameGuildHallName" width="80" height="25" font="ZoFontWinH3" inheritAlpha="true" -->  
        <Label name="GuildHallButtonFrameGuildHallName" font="ZoFontWinH3" inheritAlpha="true"  
            hidden="false" color="INTERFACE_COLOR_TYPE_TEXT_COLORS:INTERFACE_TEXT_COLOR_NORMAL"
            verticalAlignment="CENTER" horizontalAlignment="CENTER"  text="Some Mythical Place" maxLineCount="2" >
          <Dimensions x="200" y="100"/>
          <Anchor point="BOTTOM" relativeTo="$(parent)" relativePoint="BOTTOM" offsetY="15"/>
        </Label>
        <Button name="GoToGuildHallButton" inherits="ZO_DefaultButton" font="ZoFontWinH5" inheritAlpha="true"
            wrapMode="ELLIPSIS" verticalAlignment="CENTER" horizontalAlignment="CENTER" 
            text="Travel to Guild Hall">
          <OnClicked>GuildHallButton:OnClicked(...)</OnClicked>
          <Anchor point="BOTTOM" relativeTo="$(parent)" relativePoint="BOTTOM"  offsetY="30"/>
          <Dimensions x="200" />
        </Button>
      </Controls>
    </TopLevelControl>
  </Controls>
</GuiXml>

And another request, could it default to the name of the house instead of 'Guild Name Guild Hall'? Or is it not(easily) possible to detect that information?

Thank you for this wonderful little addon!

10/21/19, 09:41 PM
RavenMind Forum posts: 0 File comments: 358 Uploads: 0	Just wanted to pop in and say that this has become one of my must-have 'quality of life' addons. Good job, Sir!

09/04/19, 06:03 PM

BoarGules

Forum posts: 32

File comments: 20

Uploads: 1

Originally Posted by SteveCampsOut

Isn't this a trimmed down version of "WheresMyGuildHall"? They've updated that one.

No, it was developed entirely independently. I started work on it soon after Homestead. But it spent about a year in closed, guild-only beta because of real-life issues, so it appears to be a relative latecomer. If you look at the change log you will see that there is an update after every UI version change, usually in under 12 hours.

Originally Posted by SteveCampsOut

This needs an update. Currently it's displaying the name of my first guild hall on all 5 of my guild hall buttons.

Originally Posted by Phuein

I'll say it in different words: I left some guilds, and joined some new guilds, but your addon did not update my guilds and their selection. It just showed the old guilds' data. Even after /reloadui or logout. I will mention that I was using an older version, and not updated again until recently.

Originally Posted by Rhyono

Same problem.

You don't say which old version. That was a genuine problem and a very bad bug but it was fixed in version 1.6.0 (September 2018). If it persists with a later version, delete Saved Variables and start afresh.

Originally Posted by Phuein

That way you can just update the button data accordingly. Redo the data, matching old indexes to new.

No I can't. You are assuming that if the add-on knows the guild has changed, it can then find out the name of the new guild hall. It can't, because (a) as far as the game is concerned, there is no such thing as a guild hall: it is a player's house, and (b) the API provides no way to find out the names of the houses player owns, not even the principal residence. You have to go there and see where you have arrived at. The code does its best to gloss over this inconvenience and play catch-up, but it is really only smoke and mirrors.

07/23/19, 10:24 PM
SteveCampsOut Forum posts: 28 File comments: 322 Uploads: 0	This needs an update. Currently it's displaying the name of my first guild hall on all 5 of my guild hall buttons. Last edited by SteveCampsOut : 07/23/19 at 10:24 PM.

06/18/19, 03:50 AM
jc28735250 Forum posts: 2 File comments: 5 Uploads: 0	Great mod! Has the great ability to specify manually which guild member's hall to set as guild hall, which is what I needed. Small suggestion for a feature: add keybind customization to go to guild hall 1...etc

05/30/19, 03:11 PM
Keluna Forum posts: 0 File comments: 25 Uploads: 0	Thank you very much for this Addon, this is what I was searching for. The important feature for me is that you can manually configure the guild hall. Please keep the Addon up to date, it's a really useful one.

05/28/19, 03:53 AM
SteveCampsOut Forum posts: 28 File comments: 322 Uploads: 0	Isn't this a trimmed down version of "WheresMyGuildHall"? They've updated that one.

05/27/19, 10:01 AM
Rhyono Forum posts: 640 File comments: 1233 Uploads: 19	Same problem. Guild 2 became Guild 1. Guild 1's button is now on Guild 2's page. I'd recommend attaching the button by guild id, not guild index, as those will never change.

05/21/19, 10:51 PM

Phuein

Forum posts: 109

File comments: 224

Uploads: 12

Re: Configuring guild changes

Originally Posted by BoarGules

It is not uncommon for a single management team to run a group of related guilds with a shared guild hall. But, according to ESO rules, a player may be leader of only one guild, so the shared guild hall will not always belong to the leader of the guild you are in.

An add-on cannot discover this situation from the game API, because from the game’s point of view, there is no such thing as a guild hall. Even as a player, you can only find this out by reading your guild’s message of the day, website, or Facebook page. In such cases, you need to enter the information manually.

You enter it by going to the game menu Settings | Addons | Guild Hall Button. This will list your guilds, with three fairly self-explanatory option settings for each.

Override default guild hall. Set this to on if you need to configure the Guild Hall Button. This will enable the remaining 2 settings:
Castellan officer. This is the name of the guild officer who is the formal owner of the guild hall. The default value is (guild leader) because that is the usual situation. A drop-down list will offer you a list of the senior officers in the guild to choose from.
Name of guild hall. The default value for this is (principal residence) and you will rarely need to change it.

Did manual entry not work for you, or did you just have trouble finding it?

I'm not sure I'm following you here. Don't you just listen to: EVENT_GUILD_SELF_LEFT_GUILD and EVENT_GUILD_SELF_JOINED_GUILD ?

That way you can just update the button data accordingly. Redo the data, matching old indexes to new.

I'll say it in different words: I left some guilds, and joined some new guilds, but your addon did not update my guilds and their selection. It just showed the old guilds' data. Even after /reloadui or logout.

EDIT: I will mention that I was using an older version, and not updated again until recently.

__________________

Author of beloved and rejuvenated addons:

• ShowMount • PvP FPS 2018

• Notebook 2018 • Junkee 2018

• BestFriends 2018 • New Addon

Last edited by Phuein : 05/21/19 at 10:56 PM.

05/21/19, 10:10 AM

BoarGules

Forum posts: 32

File comments: 20

Uploads: 1

Re: Suggestions

Originally Posted by Coolio_Wolfus

...
Add a way for it to be blank if unset, some small guilds don't have a guild hall yet.
...
...

I've been thinking about this one and, though I like the idea, I don't think the API gives me any way to implement it. In the game, if you press G[uild] | Roster, and right-click the guild leader, you can choose Visit Primary Residence. If you do, you have no idea where you are going to be taken until you get there. If the guild leader has no primary residence, or does but you are not allowed to go there, there will just be an alert at the top right of the screen.

The Guild Hall Button is a just a wrapper around this functionality, so it has no reliable way to know if the guild leader has no house, or no house available to you. The API doesn't allow an add-on to discover what houses a player owns (which is probably a good thing) and so there is no way to grey out the icon or disable the button if no such house exists.

Where the house does exist and the jump is successful, the add-on can look around to see where it is, and update the name on the guild home screen for next time. Mostly that is quick enough for users not to notice it wasn't there before. But it is hard to reliably infer the absence of a jump target from a failed jump, because such failures have other, generally commoner, causes.

I do review API upgrades from time to time in the hope of getting better facilities, but the fundamental problem is that, from the game's point of view, there is no such thing as a guild hall, and the things we do to make it appear otherwise are, for the most part, smoke and mirrors.

Thank you for your interest. I would definitely implement this suggestion, if there seemed to be a way to do it.

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