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Updated: 11/28/22 03:26 PM
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Compatibility:
Firesong (8.2.5)
Lost Depths (8.1.5)
High Isle (8.0.0)
Ascending Tide (7.3.5)
Deadlands (7.2.5)
Waking Flame (7.1.5)
Blackwood (7.0.5)
Greymoor (6.0.5)
Updated:11/28/22 03:26 PM
Created:11/16/22 10:52 PM
Monthly downloads:108
Total downloads:469
Favorites:2
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Categories:PvP, Combat Mods
8.2.5
Xvfoo - The Clever Alchemist
Version: 1.1.6
by: Xorzoo [More]
Credits: Disclaimers:

This was a personal addon, it is made because I couldn't find any Clever Alchemist potion helper working in 8.2.5 Firesong.

The code was largely based on Clever Alchemist Helper by adjutant and like all developers do I copied code all over the places so let me know if you think I failed to give the correct credits.

I am happy to take it down if addon authors or site admins find it violated the rules here. Personally I think at core we all using the same/similar code since this is how game client allows you to interact with APIs.

I don't need donation, nor care about getting credits. All credits go to ZeniMax Online and those addon authors listed above. The majority of the code base is basically calling public functions from game client, art work is also directly from game client. Use this addon if you like, copy this addon if you want.

Features:
  • Block use of potion if you are on the wrong bar.
  • Block use of potion if you are not in combat.
  • Block use of ultimate if you have Balorgh equiped but don't have Clever Alchemist buff active
  • Turn off blocking in non PvP zones.
Requires:New features:

Feature requests are welcome
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Unread 11/18/22, 03:58 PM  
Xorzoo
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Originally Posted by Baertram
Basically you are right, we rely on the game's API which was provided by ZOs for common usage.
But the addon code that will be created is personal property of the respective persons. You cannot just copy anything and provide a new name, even though you might have fixed or added stuff yourself.
It does not matter if you think/know the code was broken and you fixed it. You need to keep the names, and provide credit if you copy something.
When I fork it the first thing I did was to rename it, and it is necessary:
it is not intended to be backward compatible with old addon, it is never meant to be a fix/patch. I have no intention migrating whatever the data struct or saved vars from previous addon. If I ever want to publish it I have no desire to investigate and communicate whatever you might need to do to make it work if you have an old addon installed. No disrespect to anyone, it was for my convenience. I am used to how it works in github: when I fork, I fork and give credits and such, I do whatever makes sense to me in my own fork, since no license says I cannot. If I am trying to take over the ownership of existing github repo, I ask the owner of course.

Originally Posted by Baertram
And you need to ask for permissions as this is "intellectual property" (unless the developer has explicitly allowed up in advance by writing this to the addon files, comments, documentation, wiki, github repo etc.).
Just beause something is globally accessible it does not mean you have the right to touch and use it.
No legal expert but I have a feeling that you may lose the case in court. Without explicitly specifying a license does not mean it is explicitly prohibited to use/distribute. And ZOS may have the ultimate "intellectual property" since we are basically calling their functions here and there and all of these are subject to ZOS addon licenses. If you call that as fancy as "intellectual property" then it is still arguably if hello world application is "intellectual property" or not, and to what extend you can claim that is your patent.

Originally Posted by Baertram
Would you open the door of a parked car, if it was forgotten to be locked, and change the settings of that car, maybe even remove some parts and add your own cosy seat pad, and afterwards drive around with it as you "say it is yours now"?
Maybe not the best example but it should explain what one would/should not do
You are comparing apple to pear, one is physical thing another is lines of code. A proper comparison if you have to do this: I found a painting of lemon tree in the middle of the public road(not in private property), and I found no signature or anything on it. I like it so I took a picture of it(I left it on the ground as it has always been) and paint one myself. Then hang it on my own wall and all that. The painting looks alike but too shame all lemon tree painting looks alike cuz that is how you know it is a lemon tree. Bad example I know, but I tired.

Originally Posted by Baertram
Let's wait for the addon dev feedback and if there is none just keep it. For the next time please just respect this in advance OR just keep the name and add soemthing like "Updated" / "Fixed" to the end, if you cannot contact the original dev and ask for maintenance/addition to the original addon team. This always is easier as it keeps the users and unstresses updates.
Agreed, if it is a one liner change, I will definitely upload straight to original addon, but keeping the same name could be the recipe for chaos, say you are trying to load two different glibc with unknown loading order, each has different dependency and save a different config file, etc, again bad example but you get the idea.
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Unread 11/18/22, 01:24 PM  
Baertram
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Originally Posted by Xorzoo
I saw you wrote addon yourself so you probably know this already, all those addons are pretty much using the same code at core. Is that because they copy each other with new name or because this is exactly how ZOS allows to interact with game client?
Basically you are right, we rely on the game's API which was provided by ZOs for common usage.
But the addon code that will be created is personal property of the respective persons. You cannot just copy anything and provide a new name, even though you might have fixed or added stuff yourself.
It does not matter if you think/know the code was broken and you fixed it. You need to keep the names, and provide credit if you copy something.

And you need to ask for permissions as this is "intellectual property" (unless the developer has explicitly allowed up in advance by writing this to the addon files, comments, documentation, wiki, github repo etc.).
Just beause something is globally accessible it does not mean you have the right to touch and use it.

Would you open the door of a parked car, if it was forgotten to be locked, and change the settings of that car, maybe even remove some parts and add your own cosy seat pad, and afterwards drive around with it as you "say it is yours now"?
Maybe not the best example but it should explain what one would/should not do


Let's wait for the addon dev feedback and if there is none just keep it. For the next time please just respect this in advance OR just keep the name and add soemthing like "Updated" / "Fixed" to the end, if you cannot contact the original dev and ask for maintenance/addition to the original addon team. This always is easier as it keeps the users and unstresses updates.
Last edited by Baertram : 11/18/22 at 01:27 PM.
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Unread 11/18/22, 10:50 AM  
Xorzoo
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Originally Posted by Baertram
This really sounds as if you are annoyed of rules and regulations, sorry for that. Those aren't mine
It's common sense, or at least should be, and ESOUI likes to follow this.
Understood, I obviously had no idea what are all those rules about, how the ownership of addon works in there and how to link/update someone else addon. I just personally never had any issue forking a repo, especially a dead repo with no licensing info. Who are we kidding most of the code in ESO addon is just calling ZOS defined function and most likely copied directly from the offical ESO UI Github.

But rule are rules.

Originally Posted by Baertram
I don't understand that? I did not ask you to not change a line and diff stuff. I asked you to respect the original author's work and keep his original addon alive if he does not explicitly allow you to "copy it with a new name".

It makes no difference if you change a lot of the code, the idea and original addon were his idea and code.
Giving credit as you did is nice and should be normal, right. But copying an addon without asking should not happen unless the original dev(s) allow you to do so.
It is really about how you define a "new addon" vs "copy it with a new name". Do I copy code? Yes, I copied code from all those addons and of course directly from ESO UI Github. I did link the one I get the most code from, but protecting the "original idea" of the addon is probably going too far, well I had the idea in my mind before searching for existing addons, and of course there are a whole bunch of them. It is common sense that people wants to block potion when it is not effective on CA.

I saw you wrote addon yourself so you probably know this already, all those addons are pretty much using the same code at core. Is that because they copy each other with new name or because this is exactly how ZOS allows to interact with game client?

Originally Posted by Baertram
So all I wanted to know here is that everything was done where the original dev could disagree. If we get no answer, go ahead and keep it. The userbase will like a working addon
Message sent, but TBO it was a personal addon, I don't mind sharing it if people find it useful. But I also have no interest providing backward compatibility to old addon with original lua filename and such. We will see.
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Unread 11/18/22, 01:55 AM  
Baertram
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Hi Xorzoo,

thanks for your answer.

Originally Posted by Xorzoo
but I have zero issue take it down and enjoy it just for myself.
This really sounds as if you are annoyed of rules and regulations, sorry for that. Those aren't mine
It's common sense, or at least should be, and ESOUI likes to follow this.

If the author does not respond within a few weeks it's fine, we assume he/she is missing in action and thus the original addon is dead and someone can take over officially (unless no written text says not to do so please, or licensing is asking to not do it that way). I neither found any licensing, correct.


Originally Posted by Xorzoo
but I don't change a line and release it as a new addon, do a diff and see what is actually going on.
I don't understand that? I did not ask you to not change a line and diff stuff. I asked you to respect the original author's work and keep his original addon alive if he does not explicitly allow you to "copy it with a new name".
If you want to ge the credits and fame for your work, which is understandable, add yourself to the official addon's team and add your name to the addon's txt files and description, but do not simply change the addon name please.

It makes no difference if you change a lot of the code, the idea and original addon were his idea and code.
Giving credit as you did is nice and should be normal, right. But copying an addon without asking should not happen unless the original dev(s) allow you to do so.

As the patch section of "other files" is enabled at the original addon (and I assume this was on purpose and not forgotte to disable as it's enabled for each new addon by default), and as GitHub exists and was linked, I assume it's okay for the author. But asking is better then not doing it.

So all I wanted to know here is that everything was done where the original dev could disagree. If we get no answer, go ahead and keep it. The userbase will like a working addon

Thanks for your understanding.

P.S.
Please add the dependencies needed to the addon description so the users know what to install with that addon, e.g. LibAddonMenu-2.0. Thank you
Last edited by Baertram : 11/18/22 at 01:59 AM.
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Unread 11/17/22, 09:23 PM  
Xorzoo
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Originally Posted by Baertram
https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info...Alchemist.html
-> https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info...istHelper.html
I've connected your addon to the other files of the original addon, please keep an eye on that in the future so users will find addons more easily if they base on each other, or are patches of other addons.


Hello Xorzoo,

I just noticed your new addon is based on an existing addon. But you did not tell in the description if the author allowed you to create a new addon "with a new name", based on his addon?
Did he allow you to do so?

Having a GitHub repo does not automatically allow you to release the same code, even if you add fixes, under a totally new name!
Check if licensing prohibits this AND if the author is okay with that.
Else ask him if you can take over or if he allows to add you to the original addon's team so you can fix it officially (but keeping the original name).

If you only fixed the old addon please release it with the "same name", just add "Updated" or "Fixed" behind so one can find it more easily in Minion AND release it as a patch of the original addon please (if the author enabled that at the "Other files" of that addon:

-> I've connected them for you now.


Else , if you have not asked the author yet, please read here:
https://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9865
e.g. ask the author for permission to copy his addon with a new name and wait for at least a few weeks to get a response from the original authors.


Thanks for respecting this, clarify this with the author and if he is okay provide me the okay from him please.
If he is not okay with that please remove your addon and release it as a patch to the original addon, without changing the addon's folder and filenames, as described above! Feel free to add your name to the author tag inside the addon's txt/lua files, but keep the old devs in there too please!

BR
Baertram
I didn't find any licensing info in this addon and in github, let me know if you find it otherwise.

I have sent the original author a message as requested, but I don't change a line and release it as a new addon, do a diff and see what is actually going on.

For example:

Fixed one hand/shield not working
Fixed potion detection failed due to API changes,
Fixed gear detection failed likely due to API changes as well,
Fixed pvp only mode
New Feature: added in-combat only mode,
New Feature: added reticle toggle
New Feature: added profile management

A good potion of the code has been rewritten/refac

There is no working clever alchemist helper working with the current version, that is why I made this one based on a two years old broken addon, but I have zero issue take it down and enjoy it just for myself.
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Unread 11/17/22, 11:23 AM  
Baertram
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https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info...Alchemist.html
-> https://www.esoui.com/downloads/info...istHelper.html
I've connected your addon to the other files of the original addon, please keep an eye on that in the future so users will find addons more easily if they base on each other, or are patches of other addons.


Hello Xorzoo,

I just noticed your new addon is based on an existing addon. But you did not tell in the description if the author allowed you to create a new addon "with a new name", based on his addon?
Did he allow you to do so?

Having a GitHub repo does not automatically allow you to release the same code, even if you add fixes, under a totally new name!
Check if licensing prohibits this AND if the author is okay with that.
Else ask him if you can take over or if he allows to add you to the original addon's team so you can fix it officially (but keeping the original name).

If you only fixed the old addon please release it with the "same name", just add "Updated" or "Fixed" behind so one can find it more easily in Minion AND release it as a patch of the original addon please (if the author enabled that at the "Other files" of that addon:

-> I've connected them for you now.


Else , if you have not asked the author yet, please read here:
https://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9865
e.g. ask the author for permission to copy his addon with a new name and wait for at least a few weeks to get a response from the original authors.


Thanks for respecting this, clarify this with the author and if he is okay provide me the okay from him please.
If he is not okay with that please remove your addon and release it as a patch to the original addon, without changing the addon's folder and filenames, as described above! Feel free to add your name to the author tag inside the addon's txt/lua files, but keep the old devs in there too please!

BR
Baertram
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