some addons wont work
 

but i have all libraries...
cant figure out whats wrong

i know it!

read the addon description

so mouseover pop-up bugged and dont show all dependencies? :confused:

yes, that's correct

LF 1 addons with ALL libs inside

it’s called minion or esoui

Feel free to create one, and maintain it. Please enjoy the outcome.

no, thanks
i will wait until developer will create it

Just download ALL libraries as standalones and you are done? Minion already provides that?
Maybe disable ALL adodns + libraries, and only enable the libarries listed within FCOItemSaver description.
If this does not work you have not downloaded ALL libraries as standalone versions!

You understand what standalone means?
Not included in other addons.
"Having all libraries" does not mean you are able to use them all.
The included libraries might be old or will not found in other addons if you disable one of the addons including these libraries.
So just download the libraries so they are in your AddOns directory like AddOns\LibStub, AddOns\LibCustomMenu, etc.
Check that their version in teh txt file is the same like show on ESOUi.com.
Restart the game client in total after updating stand alone libraries as they might not get updated in the list properly.

Creating an addon containing ALL libraries which needs to be updated each time an library needs an update? Omg... You simply do not understand the purpose of libraries and that THIS would NOT change anything :(

Edit:
Your screenshot is misisng LibCustomMenu, LibDialog, LibFilters, LibLoadedAddons, LibFeedback, ... which are needed for FCOIS.
So you do not have all needed libs.

This addon depends on the following libraries:
-LibStub (to load the libraries below properly)
-LibAddonMenu-2.0
-LibCustomMenu
-LibDialog
-LibFilters-2.0
-LibLoadedAddons
-LibMainMenu-2.0
-LibFeedback

I know it may seem like a pain to update all the libraries in multiple addons, but many of the users of these addons simply get updates with Minion and will never see your notes on the addon description, leading to a lot of people running into problems with your addons.

Perhaps what is needed here is some future improvement in Minion itself? Is there some configuration option we could have on addon X which would tell it to automatically pull in standalone library Y when addon X is installed?

And... I wrote that while I was updating the game and was already bothered by the idea of being forced to load standalone libraries to get an addon to work. But please forget my suggestion about changing Minion - it's a bad idea.

Because I hadn't realized the *really* bad idea part of downloading standalone libraries: nearly all of them are identified as Out of Date... and nobody should be encouraging people to enable out of date addons just to run their own. IMHO.

Yes it is. Read the description of my addons and you may understand why I'm doing this.
And what is the problem about "out of date addons"? They WORK! They are just compared to a number ingame and if the number differs its called "out of date" but it is not!
So just check this f***ing chekcbox ingame and don't even think about it anymore until a REAL lua error appears ingame due to an addon "not working anymore", and not because a number comparison tells you out of date.

Explanation:
Out of date: Apiversion ingame 100025. Api version in addon's txt file: 100024 -> Out of date -> Addons till works totally fine if you enable the echekbox
So even an addon with api 100011, like some libraries got, are able to work 10% successfully and correct.
This out of date is just an idea of ZOs to tell you users hat something could need an update. But you all get it toally wrong and bother us since years now...
Read my addon descriptions and you'll se what time we need to invest just to fix this out of date stuff where it does not need to be fixed at all.
Change your txt file locally and you are fine, if you do not want to enable out of date addons.

Addon not working: Got nothing to do with out of date or not. if the game code changes and the addon doesn't where it needs to, you'll get an lua error message and the addons tops to work.

There are several posts, threads and whatever about this out of date stuff. read it, understand the mechanics please. If you do not want to, or already have and do not understand it, you'll have to accept my decision and that this out of date crap is just nothing which prevents addons from working.

We are not going to invest more of our free time to just make "your" game experience as easy and less time consuming as it can be. The addons were made for ourselves and you are free to use thm or even not. Your decision.
But it is my game time, my money I invest. You need to accept this in the end or start learning to code and update the adodns to your needs, including this api version raise in the txt file each time, where it is not needed at all, as you could simply chekc the checbox ingame and you are set within 1 second!

Edit:
Forgive my rage about this but you are not the first and not the last one starting to fight my decision. You may do this because you do not understand the mechanics. This is why I tried to explain it, again, ... But you have to live with it so you better start to understand and fix stuff YOU want to have by your own in the end. Or simply click this checkbox ingame and just reclick it after each major patch, and everything will work just fine.
If you are using Minion your addons will be updated properly, so I do not even understand what is your problem here?

My problem is simple: Out of Date addons break the game. Not all of them. Maybe not even most of them. But enough of them are out there and do, and some of them break it badly. *Requiring* that your users enable out of date addons to be able to use your own addon is a BAD IDEA, period. You're limiting the use of your addon to those who are willing to risk breaking the game to use it.

I have at least a dozen addons I used to use, but don't use anymore because I won't check that checkbox -- NO addon is so necessary that I need to destabilize my game for it. Yours is now added to the list -- without the libraries included, you've relegated your addons to being out of date no matter how recently you may have updated them -- you may as well never bother updating the API version of your addons anymore because you can't use them anyway without enabling out of date addons.

I *am* aware of the difficulties in updating libraries. I'm a professional programmer myself (for over 40 years) -- I've written over a half dozen addons for ESO for personal use (plus two libraries) over the last few years - and yes, I have to keep the libraries within them up to date to keep them running. It's. Not. Hard. I use GIT as a source control mechanism -- I download updated libraries once, check them into GIT, and run a simple command line script to update all my addons at the same time. If I wanted to deploy them here, I could have that script do *everything* you've described in your addon posts - the changelog can be pulled from the Git commit log, the Zipping can be done automatically, and even the API version in your own addons can be updated with a script. This is all *trivial* if you use even the basic coding practices.

(And if you're *not* testing all of your addons already when a library gets updated, which is RARE, then you're not testing your addons properly.)

So forgive *my* rage at the idea that you think so little of your end-users that you want them to risk destabilizing their game by forcing them to enable Out of Date addons. It's *NEVER* a good idea, IMHO, to do so unless you're a programmer who has a clue how addons work - and most of your end-users are not.

And if, as you say, the addons were made "for ourselves"... then I suggest you do what I've done with mine - write it for yourself and DON'T bother releasing it here for other people unless you're willing to put in the time and effort to support it properly. (Yes, if you do this based on my suggestion, it might get some people pissed off at me, but I'm not particularly worried about that -- I'd rather have a safer addon environment for *everyone*. And sooner or later, other addons to do what yours used to do will appear. Or I'll write what I need myself.)

They don't. Seriously. We've been trying to get ZOS to either change or remove that out of date thing, because it's inaccurate and misleading.




None of us care if you use or don't use any of our addons. In fact, you know what, I might as well switch the Writ Crafter over to that too. Makes it a lot easier for me, and might make my Tempering Alloys worth just a bit more.




You're right. We don't do it purely for ourselves. It would be much easier to simply keep the addons we make private. Settings? No need if it's just for myself. No need for a UI, bug support, and more. We release it because we want to help make other people's lives easier. It doesn't mean we want to or will bend over backwards to satisfy entitled users.

No? Why do I get multiple UI Errors whenever I turn on Out of Date addons, then? And that's *with* me using Minion regularly to update all my addons. I can just imagine how many errors might pop up with a user who hasn't been doing that who then turns on Out of Date addons?

Yes, many addon authors are pretty good about updating their addons and fixing the bugs which happen when the API changes, and release their updated addons as soon as the update hits the servers, but many DO NOT. The last time I had Out of Date addons turned on when a major update hit (The Morrowind release, I think), maybe 5 addons were up to date, and half of the rest seriously broke - popping up UI errors in the middle of combat and all kinds of other times, and I couldn't even get into my inventory. I've never turned on Out of Date addons since, except to prove to myself there were *still* addons in my list which caused errors.

I have several friends who run all the time with Out of Date addons because they believe they need addon X to play. I'm constantly hearing stability issues with the game from them when the game has a significant update - including some actual game crashes, and 90% of the time when they investigate, they find some obscure out of date addon which is causing the problem.

(Up to date addons can have stability issues too, but they're far less likely than out of date ones...)

So it's wishful thinking at best to believe that everyone can turn on Out of Date errors without any worries.

Providing the libraries in your addons isn't "bending over backwards". It's releasing a program. Imagine if ESO came with installation instructions which included downloading a bunch of libraries and installing them manually. That's effectively what you're doing. Minion was created to make it easier to install addons -- and you're canceling out all of that advantage. You're NOT making people's lives easier if they have to enable out of date addons and download and install a bunch of libraries *just* to make your addon run.

I fully understand that it's hard to do this. And I appreciate all of those efforts, truly I do. I don't play often enough or have the time to properly release or support my own addons, which is why I never released them. And that's the fundamental difference here between our points of view: If I *did* release my addons, I would feel a responsibility to keep them up to date and fully working - or to pass them on to someone else to maintain. And that would include making them work for people without going through hoops installing standalone libraries or enabling out of date addons. I'd feel the same responsibility for an addon, or a program I wrote for pay, or any of the other code I've written and released to the public.

And yes, you might consider me an "entitled user", even though I'm actually not asking any of you to do anything other than avoid bad programming practices. I just hope others who are reading this might give some thought to the impact of their actions and take some responsibilty for them instead.

It's funny tho, often enough these out-of-date addons that are producing errors are actually due to a library that needs to be updated for all of them. ;)

Does that really happen often in practice? Isn't that why we have LibStub - so the most recent version of the library encountered is the actually used one? Or are you suggesting the bugs are because an older version is then overloaded with a newer version? I don't doubt that a poorly designed library upgrade could cause some problems like that, but I would expect that to be a very rare case in practice.

Perhaps some compromise solution could be developed here: include all the common libraries which are stable and rarely need updates in all addons which need them, and then if there are particularly unusual libraries which get updated often, require only *those* libraries to be manually downloaded as standalone addons. Perhaps those types of libraries shouldn't even be designated as "libraries" -- just say that Addon X simply depends on Addon Y. (There are a number of these cases already...)

This happens a lot more often than you think, since most addon authors aren't professional programmers with years of experience, and even then it happens. "Upgrading" libraries the old LibStub way is very complicated and if you messed up in some old version of it, it will cause unexpected and unfixable bugs for years, since the old version won't just disappear in most cases. Using the new facilities that the game offers, ensures that only one version of the addon is loaded into memory, which avoids this problem entirely.

Possibly. I'm well aware that many addon programmers don't have the experience to do libraries right, but that lends itself more to an argument that we need better library programming practices instead of poorer addon programming practices.

One fairly easy solution would be to make sure that all libraries have a current maintainer who is responsible for updating at least the version numbers with every API release. If all the out of date libraries (including LibStub) had current API versions, nobody would have to enable Out of Date addons. I would then find it useful for Minion to be updated to have a dependency mechanism - if Addon A needs Addon B (a library, or other addon), it would automatically install Addon B if and only if Addon B is not Out of Date for the current API version. By making Minion require a dependency to be up to date, it encourages the addon author to seek out the library maintainer and request an update, instead of propagating the problem.

Another solution (fairly common in the wider world of software, but perhaps more complex than ZOS and/or addon developers would want here...) would be for ZOS to establish a certification mechanism which would it allow it to load an addon automatically for a given API version. Certs would be generated through testing on PTS - run your addon without triggering UI errors and it will generate a cert file. Certs could be uploaded to ESOUI without requiring a new addon update, and Minion would install the most recent Cert (if any) with the addon. (In addition to helping the library problem, this would also be a boon to other addon developers who wouldn't necessarily need to update the addon package file when a new API is released - they simply upload a new Cert.)

There are lots of other possible solutions. My desire isn't to force people to do things necessarily the old way - I'm just trying to avoid a new approach which is actually worse.

Hmmn... thinking about it further, the cert mechanism wouldn't even have to be ZOS generated (they'd need to accept a cert file as a substitute for the API Version, but that's all they'd need to do on their side...) Cert files could be generated by any addon developer with a simple program, or even automatically by ESOUI if enough users mark the addon as "Safe for API version XXX". That would allow easy support of older addons which still work. Just trying to think outside the box a bit.

The harder it gets to release add-ons, the fewer add-ons you'll get for free.
 

I've already abandoned all but one of my add-ons, and barely have the will to keep that one up to date.

If I had to get a cert from somebody, or update my add-on every time there's an API bump even if no code needed to change? I'd just stop publishing add-ons entirely. I have better ways to spend my gaming time than programming for free.

--Z

PS: And yes, I look forward to switching WritWorthy to the new library scheme just like Baertram. I suffered through a rash of library version incompatibilities about a year ago that wouldn't have happened if I had the new system back then.

You write about so much great ideas and possibilities but believe us, we are doing this since years now.
There are reasons why it does not work, just accept this. There could be several other ways but I'm not going to step in this direction. Libraries are not to be included into addons or you could even put the whole lib code into your addon.

There is a solution and if this solution is "enable a small checkbox", then do it please.

Or you won't go this easy way and will fix the addons locally to your needs using included libraries, and do it over and over again each time we need to update the addons. This way you'll be able to use them "the way you like them".
Maybe you'll get the point about the time consumed to update the addons each time this way...

We just want to have time "to play" as well. So please, would you simply accept it finally?
Or talk to and convince Zos to provide another way to "protect you from non working addons".

As a simple user of add-ons, albeit with an interest regarding their inner workings, I'm all for the reworked mechanism that developers are using to package their work. Downloading the libraries separately does, in fact make it easier (for me, at least) to understand exactly where issues are coming up when add-ons don't seem to be working as they are intended.

Big thanks to all the devs who create these wonderful add-ons and make it available to the public. Just know that a large, large majority of users do appreciate your efforts, regardless of how quiet they all are about it. :)

I understand those changes and I support everything that gives the addon authors more time, since they already spent time for others.

But I really hope all the "changing" will be done coordinated. Bc with every addon I use and which does this change, I have to update all my Addon Presets to enable the Libs :-/

While I have not been deploying addons to the public "since years", I've been writing them for two years, and have written addons for other games in the past, not to mention writing libraries, standards, and innumerable best practice documents. I've seen these kinds of arguments before, and whenever anyone says "just accept this", it usually means they've stopped thinking about solutions and are simply being stubborn for the sake of stubborness.

If there are reasons why a solution "doesn't work", *say* them - don't hand wave them away. Are you saying it's impossible to update the versions of the libraries? That was the simple solution I suggested first.

That's a solution for a small number of users. Please go ahead and put that in bold in top of your addon descriptions and see how many follow your instructions. You're basically bypassing ZOS API version mechanism entirely, so you should tell people that's your choice. Me, I won't do it, and I know plenty of others who won't do that either. I'm NOT requesting you change this, mind you - I'm simply saying you are limiting your target user base and probably relegating your addons to obscurity.

No, why would I do that? I'll simply seek out addons which work instead. Or write my own.

Honestly, I would much rather ZOS remove that checkbox entirely and force addons to not load unless they are up to date. There's a reason they have the API Version field in the addons, and your approach effectively says you know better than ZOS how to interact with their game. But hey, you go on doing things the wrong way -- maybe I'm wrong about how other people will react to it.

You know zgwortz, you are somehow right: I do not want to talk about this anymore and want to wipe your discussion simply away. As this is a game and not my job!
It's making me angry you won't simply accept the fact that there is currently no other way to improve this.
You were redirected by many ppl now to talk to ZOs and argue with them, find a better way, do your thing.
I won't stop you there. And I'd be glad if it will be less work then today and functionally for the standard user as well.
I always told you guys you are free to do it your way.
Kee pthe libs within your adons, I'm fine with it.
But libraries are not meant and build to be included in each single piece of code if it is not needed. So I have removed them from my addons to get some benefits (listed in different threads now).
Maybe not a good example but dou you think Microsoft copies the same library files to each piece of code again if they can also work from within System32 directory? This will be only done with files which are changed or "could be missing" on some system32 directories.
-> Maybe Minion will be updated one day to install dependent libs with the addons. Would be cool.

It is you decision to "Not eanble the checkbox" (and maybe the same for many other users who do not want to know what this checkbox does in the back and why it is disabled after a patch).
-> But I also know a very large base of users who want to see behind the scenes and understand what it does. And I also know a lot of players who understood that this way of "security" is not working and who simply enable the checkbox and use their brain to deactivate error message affected addons afterwards. I'm glad these guys are alive because THEY will make the difference with ZOs if they need to decide another way of addon checks (if this will ever happen..). not "your" user base which just disables it and complains about non working/enabled addons afterwards :rolleyes:
It is your decision to "Not break ZOs stupid way of using a version check to tell the standard user that an addon is broken, which isn't at all".
It's your decision to "use this fail of a check" and "wrong try to secure users".

I've accepted your decisions.

But if you do not want to update ALL addon's ##APIVersion: for us each patch where it is not needed...
Maybe you will volunteer to update them all? Or the libraries? Would be cool, thanks.

I guess you need to write your own addons then like you have told us.

But perhaps just talk to ZOs and try to get a better working "protection against old addons" instead of
bringing your dislike against the way it is done now from other games, libraries, projects, documents and addons here to the forums?