FastAPI new version before next patch (devs)

[dopiate]

with the next api change coming i'm going to finish the new version of Fast API

New Image



any requests - get them in NOW pls.

I would favorite this addon so you don't get stuck with API issues and think "wasn't there an addon for this?"

-d

[Baertram]

This looks very ncie and ease, many thanks for the idea and work!

One feature request:
Please add a button to "check/uncheck all" addons in that list, if possible.
This way one could easily mark all and just remove a few (if we don't want to update all of them).

And if the tool isn't doing this already:
Provide a possibility to add the FastAPI tag to the addon's manifest files where it wasn't added yet (or only for some we can mark too)?

What does that mean that checkbox "Only change AddOns with API tag" ?

if it's unchecked it's gonna change all addons no matter what? even if they are not ready for the new API? I don't agree to this, sorry.

If this becomes a "thing" like you want it to, at some point there will be people thinking that using this will make their addons work with the new updates even if it's not the case. And they're gonna complain on our pages if they got UI errors.

And I intend to update mine only after checking that they are working on the new version on Live. Not before, and certainly not before AND after the patch: before for users who use this AND after those who don't use this. That's twice as much traffic, it doesn't make it smoother.

[dopiate]

Originally Posted by Baertram This looks very ncie and ease, many thanks for the idea and work! One feature request: Please add a button to "check/uncheck all" addons in that list, if possible. This way one could easily mark all and just remove a few (if we don't want to update all of them). And if the tool isn't doing this already: Provide a possibility to add the FastAPI tag to the addon's manifest files where it wasn't added yet (or only for some we can mark too)?

Hi,

That is an old screen shot - you will have a check all/uncheck all option. You can also check just the ones you want to change.

It's much more mature, but the project file is at work :-) ... and I'm off today.

-d

[dopiate]

Originally Posted by Wandamey What does that mean that checkbox "Only change AddOns with API tag" ? if it's unchecked it's gonna change all addons no matter what? even if they are not ready for the new API? I don't agree to this, sorry.

Not everyone will agree with the options?.

There will be warnings and notifications on things like that.

The tag is to opt in or opt out for authors.

Originally Posted by Wandamey If this becomes a "thing" like you want it to, at some point there will be people thinking that using this will make their addons work with the new updates even if it's not the case. And they're gonna complain on our pages if they got UI errors. And I intend to update mine only after checking that they are working on the new version on Live. Not before, and certainly not before AND after the patch: before for users who use this AND after those who don't use this. That's twice as much traffic, it doesn't make it smoother.

You can opt out :-)

that;'s why there is a FastAPI tag.

I'm not trying to create errors but I think you can see the value in being able to change one API up or down or multiple ones.

I respect all authors code -- you don't opt in, it won't modify it.

but IF it's ready for the new API and you have the old one in there - then the user does NOT have to wait for your new version to play. They can patch it.

Let me get a better picture and layout tomorrow and then give me feedback on that.

Maybe I jumped the gun with an old SS but I didn't plan on skipping work today :-) -- it just happened.

Sirinsidiator was helping me with the layout and ideas (smart dude) ... so give it a day before you hate it.

-d

Not all users will use this. Ever.
So at best it makes authors update twice instead of once.
Only interest is if one wants to artificially boost ones downloads. Not interested.

And you of all people sure can understand that not all authors will encourage the download of a third party exe.

[dopiate]

Originally Posted by Wandamey Not all users will use this. Ever. So at best it makes authors update twice instead of once. Only interest is if one wants to artificially boost ones downloads. Not interested. And you of all people sure can understand that not all authors will encourage the download of a third party exe.

I think they will be ok with it plus I will publish the project file and you can compile it yourself if you want.

You are first hearing of this, it was done successfully last patch. This time there are just more options.

Many authors expressed interest in this. It helps you going back and forth from the PTS to live.

It will be very simple - you opt out and the code will never change your API.

I'm not going to change another authors code without permission, period.

-d

ps when the next dlc goes live it's a lot better to be Fast API ready - and tagged then wait for you to change 1 number and have your users wait for addon approval. You know 75% of the users don't understand "out of date addons"

[QuadroTony]

thanks for the soft! i will adapt my addons for it

and dont listen Wandamey too much - she like bitc-hing around

Originally Posted by dopiate (...) -d ps when the next dlc goes live it's a lot better to be Fast API ready - and tagged then wait for you to change 1 number and have your users wait for addon approval. You know 75% of the users don't understand "out of date addons"

that's an excellent example. My addons won't work until I upload. And they won't work with the same file on the 2 different API. I want them to be tagged out-of-date because they will be out-of-date and missing data for the DLC until I upload.

If I weren't around for the DLC release I would use the $(APIversion) variable at the cost of an extra file in my folder. But at least it would be there for all users, not just a small part of them.

So I'm relieved that you don't touch addons that dont tag FastAPI. Please keep it that way.

And these 75% who don't understand "out-of-date addons" they understand how to find and download an exe, configure it and run it for their addons to appear "up to date"? Interesting.

[dopiate]

Originally Posted by Wandamey that's an excellent example. My addons won't work until I upload. And they won't work with the same file on the 2 different API. I want them to be tagged out-of-date because they will be out-of-date and missing data for the DLC until I upload. If I weren't around for the DLC release I would use the $(APIversion) variable at the cost of an extra file in my folder. But at least it would be there for all users, not just a small part of them. So I'm relieved that you don't touch addons that dont tag FastAPI. Please keep it that way. And these 75% who don't understand "out-of-date addons" they understand how to find and download an exe, configure it and run it for their addons to appear "up to date"? Interesting.

I'm not sure I get all the sarcasm and attitude

Its a program and it won't affect your addon???

Jeez ...

Here is the backstory from 6 months ago

I don't really want to answer any of your questions or comment on this post.

-d

[votan]

I can understand Wandamey's concerns, that this program may introduces wrong expectations to some users. Writing comments like this: "I upgraded your addon and still getting errors. This addon is ... "

But we should not forget why dopiate wrote Fast API:
At best ZOS would handle manifests with multiple APIVersion-TAG numbers correctly, not marking them as "out-dated", if one of the given numbers matches the current API.
At second best Minion would adjust the manifest based on the compatibility checklist maintained here at esoui. As it is an extra, external program already.
Only at third best Fast API does what the others should have done already.

I think, its ok as long as the user is always aware, that it is done "at own risk", if the addon is not explicitly marked as compatible.

/edit 1: And Wandamey is right: As long as ZOS does not handle multiple APIVersions, the authors still have to release a "hybrid" and a "up-to-date" version, because not everybody will use Minion or Fast API.

[dopiate]

Originally Posted by votan I can understand Wandamey's concerns, that this program may introduces wrong expectations to some users. Writing comments like this: "I upgraded your addon and still getting errors. This addon is ... "

But it won't unless the author opts in.

I'm an author too and I don't want anyone changing my stuff without me giving an OK.

Originally Posted by votan But we should not forget why dopiate wrote Fast API: At best ZOS would handle manifests with multiple APIVersion-TAG numbers correctly, not marking them as "out-dated", if one of the given numbers matches the current API. At second best Minion would adjust the manifest based on the compatibility checklist maintained here at esoui. As it is an extra, external program already. Only at third best Fast API does what the others should have done already.

FastAPI will read the live game manifest and know what API is being used.

So you can go from "out of date" to "up to date" the moment the patch comes out if the author knows the addon is ready. You would not even have to rush to release a "new version".

It also helps devs swap from PTS <-> live.

Originally Posted by votan I think, its ok as long as the user is always aware, that it is done "at own risk", if the addon is not explicitly marked as compatible. /edit 1: And Wandamey is right: As long as ZOS does not handle multiple APIVersions, the authors still have to release a "hybrid" and a "up-to-date" version, because not everybody will use Minion or Fast API.

I agree on both points, this is both for the user and authors. Protections will be built in. Not every user will use it, obviously and not all devs, but I got a list already who do want to use it. I have a list from last path and it was 100% successful - and that version was command line only.

I'll be at work today so I can show you what it looks like now - I put it on hold for a few months but I think it's time to finish it.

-d

Originally Posted by votan At best ZOS would handle manifests with multiple APIVersion-TAG numbers correctly, not marking them as "out-dated", if one of the given numbers matches the current API.

True this. The only way to have something like that achieving its purpose aka being easier to use and spreading the flow of uploads is to have 100% of players using it. And the only way to get these 100% is to have it native from ZOS.

until then Devs have to take into account user who will use it and users who won't that's more work, not less.
user-wise it's already confusing. See the comments on the addon page : they think they have to edit the manifests themselves. And if they do, how is it easier than editing the APIversion directly? I just don't get it.

Not to mention the inverse issue : let's say someone updates Fisherman right now, reads the patch note (lel) and says oh? FastAPI what is it? and click the link and try it right now... what happens? he'll be out of date till DLC release. We're biting our tails here.


I think the energy put in this would be better placed in having Chip looking at something like that

## APIVersion: 100013 100014

so i'm gonna bump the topic of last time right now.

[dopiate]

Originally Posted by Wandamey Not to mention the inverse issue : let's say someone updates Fisherman right now, reads the patch note (lel) and says oh? FastAPI what is it? and click the link and try it right now... what happens? he'll be out of date till DLC release. We're biting our tails here.

It's capable of going forward an backward and you can be sure all your addons will be hard coded in Fast API to not work. They will just be filtered out and invisible to the program.

So even if a user just waned to see what addons were still out of date - yours won't show up.

Originally Posted by Wandamey I think the energy put in this would be better placed in having Chip looking at something like that ## APIVersion: 100013 100014 so i'm gonna bump the topic of last time right now.

Yea - already discussed this .. your new ideas are old - so yes please no more bumps.

Your addons are safe, they will be filtered out, hidden and the program will never change them.

Merry Christmas

-d

ps this is a more recent image of this "horrible game ending tool"

[Baertram]

I don't get the problem here Wandamey (or at least I don't share all your concerns about double uploads e.g.).
Please, don't take this "game" and surrounding too serious. Dopiate just developed a helping tool for authors (and some users).
Though: As Dopiate has blacklisted your addons it should be ok now. Too bad, will have to update the PTS API for your addons manually again.

Just my brainstorming
If any user updates all his/her addons to the new API (manually or by help of FastAPI, or other tools), and the addon won't work, they don't need to download anything so far.
They will just cry, blame the authors, blame ZOs, blame their wife/husband, write a bug report or spam the addon comments like before

I don't think their behaviour will change recently just because they tried another tool which changes something about addons (what they might not undesrtand as you described above).
If something doesn't work, they drop it, ask a friend, redownload it or, if they want to invest at least a bit of time, copy the error mesasge and post a comment here for the author(s).

After your update to the addon you change the version number (assuming you have and change the version number in the manifest file, so Minion can use it properly) and the user downloads the new file, which works again. So it'll be only 1 upload and download.

The users are even able to change the API of your addons manually, change the version in the manifest file or change the addon's files to their needs.
You won't be secure against manually changed manifest or lua files, no matter how it was done (by a tool like FastAPI or by the help of Notpad++ regex search and replace, or manually...).

So imo FastAPI is a helping hand for addon authors during e.g. the PTS<->live switches and the ones who use it are resopnisbile for what they do (user or author).
I wouldn't update all my addons locally to the newest API, because I don't have to if I enable "Use out of date addons" in the game (only if I need to test something).

I don't get it where this will be more work for the devs?
And if the user is willing to learn he/she will only use FastAPI once and afterwards just start to blame the authors, cry and write angry messages in the forums again

@Dopiate
The easiest thing FastAPI could do is just enable the "UseOutOfDateAddons" line in that "UsedAddons.txt" (I forgot the correct name, sorry) file

What do you mean? you let your addons tagged with fastAPI from one DLC to the other without even checking if they work on PTS for the next API?



thing is it could be a useful dev tool to check if we haven't forgotten to change our API numbers, but this :

Originally Posted by Dopiate So you can go from "out of date" to "up to date" the moment the patch comes out if the author knows the addon is ready. You would not even have to rush to release a "new version".

is unrealistic.

[votan]

Originally Posted by Wandamey What do you mean? you let your addons tagged with fastAPI from one DLC to the other without even checking if they work on PTS for the next API? thing is it could be a useful dev tool to check if we haven't forgotten to change our API numbers, but this : is unrealistic.

You (the author) write an addon working with two API versions, e.g. 100013 and 100014. You are releasing it with a manifest "up-to-date" for current live API (100013) and you tag it as also compatible with 100014 in the manifest:
##APIVersion: 100013
##FastAPI: 100014

Now the Fast API exe knows, that it can safely patch the manifest once 100014 is the new live API and your addon is again "up-to-date".

Fast API will not patch the manifest (without warning the user) to 100015.
^^ And even if it would do: Your addon is written as a hybrid using $(APIVersion), which means nothing is loaded once 100015 is the new API, because no file is found...

I saw it exactly like that that's why it would make me have to do one extra upload and one extra manifest editing at each DLC.

I don't get how exactly Baertram avoid this unless he manages to slip it into a bugfix that would occur after his PTS tests. But I nvm. I get it that it's useful for the people who use it, I just don't have the same point of view, I tend to take into account the lamba user/lambda author faced with the choice to use it or not

and beside, in a general way, I don't want my files to be edited without my consent. It can make troubleshouting harder in general and in this very case, it obfuscates to the user if he did or not do the update already especially if he does his updates manually without Minion.
(I personaly would be that user and as it, not seing an advantage in being able to use fastAPI on untagged files at all)

[sirinsidiator]

You should stop here. It doesn't change anything without your consent (given by putting the FastAPI tag into the metafile) and if someone wants to use it they can use it and if someone doesn't they are not forced by anyone. The end.
And dopiate, you should remove the "Only change Addons with a fast api tag" checkbox.

[QuadroTony]

Originally Posted by Wandamey and beside, in a general way, I don't want my files to be edited without my consent. It can make troubleshouting harder in general and in this very case, it obfuscates to the user if he did or not do the update already especially if he does his updates manually without Minion. (I personaly would be that user and as it, not seing an advantage in being able to use fastAPI on untagged files at all)

i just downloaded all your addons and modify them to work with FastAPI
for my own needs


eat it