Quantcast ZoS: Make Titles etcpp. readonly and not changeable by addons - Page 4 - ESOUI
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08/28/19, 03:37 AM   #61
Baertram
 
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Aren't you able to simply install it as standalone without Dustman?
Oh no, it got no own txt file.
But you could simply create your own to load the LibCustomTitles.lua file.
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08/28/19, 05:05 AM   #62
cOOLsp0T
 
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Normally I wouldnt react to a topic like this, but as I noticed did a lot of people doesnt understand the philosophy about making Addons.

The most Addon are made in first grade for himself and his friends! The Author just shares his work with the whole community. Like Anceane said before, its a gift and nothing else!

Undocumented or hidden functions?
I cant understand the problem with this. LUA is an interpreted script Language and so the code can be easily insighted. There arent BINs which you have to reverse engineered before you can read the code or something like that and LUA is easy to learn. Experienced programmers will just document their functions in complexe sections and documentation is most for the author himself. I can understand this argument on Lib's, but not on addons, because did you expect that an Addon Author writes an UML for his Addon?

When an Addon doesnt work like you interested in then, dont blame the author nor use it or write your own Addon! You will fast realize, when you never designed application outputs will you make a lot of stuff which can irritate the user, because you have first to learn how to make stuff like this in a decent way, same with Easter Eggs.

Last edited by cOOLsp0T : 08/28/19 at 05:07 AM. Reason: forget a word
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08/28/19, 05:56 AM   #63
Baertram
 
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I think the same abut this, but the topic is old and we shouldn't warm it up again
Everyone got his concerns and for those who do not like the custom titles silverees created a disable library for it as well.
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09/10/19, 09:13 AM   #64
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what the hell

Originally Posted by Baertram View Post
I think the same abut this, but the topic is old and we shouldn't warm it up again
Everyone got his concerns and for those who do not like the custom titles silverees created a disable library for it as well.
While I agree and I don't really want to open a can of worm from 2017, I still feel like I have to voice my opinion, so I'm gonna jump on the occasion that you posted relatively recently. I'm not really looking to argue since you've all made your point already and the "issue" has been stagnant since then, but I still want to put this out there.

My issue is that this "feature" is not documented anywhere visible, and relies on it's popularity with mod authors to work. In a way, it's similar to a cartel where the controlling few get to impose something on the masses for their own benefit, and here without them even knowing it.
It's indeed harmless and using a cartel as an analogy is pretty far-fetched on the negative scale, but the ethics are similar.
If I were to search for a negative impact on the user solely on the features side of things, I'd say that it could be confusing if I were to see someone with a title that I've never ever heard of, while knowing that titles are obtainable via achievements and such - but that's also an effect of the whole thing being sneaked up the user's butt. And I'm not discussing features.


Originally Posted by cOOLsp0T View Post
The most Addon are made in first grade for himself and his friends! The Author just shares his work with the whole community. Like Anceane said before, its a gift and nothing else!
You wouldn't put a hidden "feature" in your "gift" to a friend if it wasn't a nice surprise for them, or a funny easter egg or whatever. The entire point of this is to "reward" yourself with something rare and unique, it has nothing to do with user satisfaction.

Originally Posted by cOOLsp0T View Post
Undocumented or hidden functions? [...] did you expect that an Addon Author writes an UML for his Addon?
No, I expected Addon Authors to write one single line in their addon description saying that it includes this and what it does. Of course I wouldn't expect an entire paragraph for every line of code. But not mentioning that this thing is added anywhere visible is disingenuous at best. (for the record, yes it's in 4 addons I checked's changelog, and no nobody is reading that prior to installing an extension, that counts as "not visible" in my book. It also did not mention what the lib was doing, except for Ayantir's ones.)

Originally Posted by cOOLsp0T View Post
When an Addon doesnt work like you interested in then, dont blame the author nor use it or write your own Addon!
This is far remote from the issue -the point isn't about an addon not working the way I, the Burly Ungrateful King User, expected or wanted, it's about trust. I trusted the addon to do what it said, and it did a bit more that benefits others without ever telling me. If I had known prior to randomly hitting this thread that the addons I installed had this "feature", maybe I would have thought twice about installing them. And I'd have at least known about the way to disable them. Or maybe I'd even have been okay with having it, since they were honest - after all, it's a nice reward, it doesn't cost me anything, and they've been hardworking.

Originally Posted by sulexa View Post
In the last news Windows, macos, android and ios have software that you can't disable or uninstall...
Oh, and you can uninstall or disable an addon and even modify it.
If it's a bad thing when the big corps sneak code up your devices, what makes it okay here? It's not because there's bigger issues in the world that everything less important can be disregarded

The "just edit the addon files" answers that came before silvereye's addons, and even the "just install the addons to disable it" that came after it don't answer the point either. They're disingenuous too, since to know that you don't like something and want it removed, you first need to know about it. And to know about it, you should have been told - it's ridiculous to expect users to go read the code to see if some evil dev didn't add some sneaky code. First off, most users don't know how to read code. As a dev it might seem easy, but for others it can be confusing, overwhelming, or any number of things. Next, if an addon has a list of features and it does not mention that thing, that's simply dishonest. Basic social contract stuff. It wasn't written anywhere "oh and also go check the code just in case I added some sneaky secret things". It was implied that those were the features the addon provided, and it lied by omission.



Overall I'm just an angry internet user that thinks this has been handled poorly and dishonestly, and this thread was sad (but interesting) to read. I'm not expecting things to change, not years after the issue at least, and not when I'm writting this as a complete foreigner in the whole ESO addons ecosystem. But still, reeeeeeeeee.

(It also doesn't mean you haven't made cool things, so thanks for all of those.)
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09/10/19, 09:56 AM   #65
Rhyono
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You voice a lot of disdain for addon authors doing anything that benefits themselves. Comparing us to both cartels and large companies. You mentioned it's in the change log but that you wouldn't read that before downloading. Fair enough, but for most of us, that's the entirety of the documentation you're going to get.

As unpaid, unaffiliated with ZOS, professional (many of us) programmers: you're right, we should never do anything for ourselves and we should invest immense time in documenting every facet of what we make.

There is a misconception among addon users that we answer to you, as a corporation would its shareholders. We're much closer to volunteers at a soup kitchen: we can simply walk away.
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09/10/19, 11:56 AM   #66
Baertram
 
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You mentioned it's in the change log but that you wouldn't read that before downloading. Fair enough, but for most of us, that's the entirety of the documentation you're going to get.

Thanks Ryono, exactly what I said in my posts before. The users will not invest a few minutes to read and understand, or at least ask. But they demand to get and know everything.
Even writing it to the description is not read. They do not use the search nor ask others before posting the same questions again and again.

But the same demand to make fun stuff visible, documented and whatever else. Just disable the addons, read the given documentation/changelog and ask if something is not obvious. But don't expect the fun coders to make this their official unpaid business. No one ever forces you to add the addons to your game experience.
I may sound rude to you but this discussion annoys me again very much, especially if there are comparisons to cartels or big companies now. We are in a game guys! This is about fun and not real life, your personal problems with hidden software etc. Addons don't harm you. Custom titles won't harm you or your account. Just use them or don't. But stop this fight now please and have fun playing the game (maybe without addons if this disturbs you).
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