/sigh There's already a site ...

[Cairenn]

Originally Posted by Lodur Well the addons I have done all I have given an MIT license to on my github where I keep the masters. I release here because this IS the "addon community". Because of my choice in license my addons are free to do as you will with... But I will be using this site for all my releases. To the authors of the esoui.com web site... Good Job.

Thanks Lodur.

[Tingle0x539]

Why don't you make a news message on the front page of this site and post on the ESO addon forum with a warning.

[Tajin]

Maybe it would be a good idea to automatically include a small textfile or link in every addon available here.
Php can automate that. Some download sites do this.

This way if someone steals files from here, they'd have to repack them first to remove the links.

[Cairenn]

Originally Posted by Tingle0x539 Why don't you make a news message on the front page of this site and post on the ESO addon forum with a warning.

There are a couple reasons for not putting up a news post, that if you think about them actually make some sense:

1. If we put it up as a news post, it gets them a lot of attention, and would actually drive more traffic to their site, which is what they want, since site traffic means ad revenue.
2. By putting it in this particular section of the forums, while many 'regular users' may browse through this section somewhat there will be a lot less of them (see #1), yet the authors will see it.

As for posting on the ESO forum, Wykkyd beat me to it.

Originally Posted by Tajin Maybe it would be a good idea to automatically include a small textfile or link in every addon available here. Php can automate that. Some download sites do this. This way if someone steals files from here, they'd have to repack them first to remove the links.

While that isn't a bad suggestion, there are a couple reasons why that won't work:

1. We absolutely positively have not in the past, do not now, and will not in the future, ever touch an author's files. No modifications of the zip files they upload to our sites. See copyright and our feelings about protecting it. *
2. As we've seen in the past, and as this person is already showing that they will do the same - if they want to do this, they're going to do it. They think nothing of going in, removing copyright statements, altering code to remove contact information, rename files, whatever.

Appreciate the suggestion though. As I said, not a bad idea on the surface, just ... yeah.


[Edit]* Aaaactually, that isn't precisely true. We have gone in and edited an author's files for very specific reasons but only with the author's express knowledge and permission. The main reason being if an author is uploading a tool or utility (not a plain addon) that requires an executable. In those cases, we require them to provide us with source code, to make sure that it is safe before we release it for download. After we have checked it we will remove the source code if they request it, before making it available to the public. See again copyright and our feelings about protecting it.

[Tingle0x539]

Then add a note to the upload process for the authors to read about adding a link to the site they upload it to, which would be faster to implement than my second suggestion which is, to add a check-mark which one can select to auto add a hosting info txt file to the zip file.

Also, would it somehow be possible for authors to adfly their links, almost everyone does it for Minecraft mods. And personaly, If I make something successful, I wouldn't mind a couple bucks. I'm a independent programmer by profession and it itches me releasing software without a small profit. I made a add-on for Kerbal Space Program and it became the most popular add-on for over two months, now, about 120k downloads later I regret not adflying those links.

[Tajin]

Originally Posted by Cairenn We absolutely positively have not in the past, do not now, and will not in the future, ever touch an author's files. No modifications of the zip files they upload to our sites. See copyright and our feelings about protecting it.

Thats certainly a good principle, though I don't think anyone would object to it as long as it is limited.

I guess it would be fine if we get a checkbox when uploading, that allows us to opt out if we don't want this information added to our files.



Of course it won't stop anyone, but...

1. it increases the necessary effort (if they remove the file from the zip)
2. it makes theft easier to spot and provides people with a link to this site (if the files don't get removed)
3. if they do remove the file from the zip, then not only do they steal your content, they also tamper with it without permission. That turns it into a more serious matter, which makes it easier to do something about it.


@Tingle0x539
Now I'm curious, which Kerbal-addon was that?

[Lynce]

Hello all, I work with a (not the) hosting company myself and deal with abuse reports.

I have just downloaded some addons that they are offering and checked them against the addons on this site. The result is, that the code is not modified in any way.

Also, their site does not contain advertising of any kind. I fully respect the authors, but the site is only reuploading the addons as they are, giving full credit to the authors and not making a dime from it in the process.

Seems like they are just making the addons more popular.


*EDIT: Just as someone mentioned, the addons do not seem to have any copyright on them in general. ARR is really not valid here, as it is applied to works of art (paintings, sculptures and etc) and also can only be applied if the person is reselling the work of art and making €1,000+ for it.

[ingeniousclown]

Originally Posted by Tajin Maybe it would be a good idea to automatically include a small textfile or link in every addon available here. Php can automate that. Some download sites do this. This way if someone steals files from here, they'd have to repack them first to remove the links.

This might cause issues if it's in the add-on folder... I had a changelog.txt in my add-on folder at one point but it was being picked up as a separate add-on by the ESO client. Was kinda strange.

Originally Posted by Lynce Hello all, I work with a (not the) hosting company myself and deal with abuse reports. I have just downloaded some addons that they are offering and checked them against the addons on this site. The result is, that the code is not modified in any way. Also, their site does not contain advertising of any kind. I fully respect the authors, but the site is only reuploading the addons as they are, giving full credit to the authors and not making a dime from it in the process. Seems like they are just making the addons more popular.

Yet this is still harmful to the add-on developers. We don't upload to that site, which means that any add-on that is downloaded from that site might be an old, unsupported or broken (somehow) version of the add-on. Innocent users of that site may not know that their issue has been fixed weeks ago.

[Cairenn]

Originally Posted by Lynce *EDIT: Just as someone mentioned, the addons do not seem to have any copyright on them in general. ARR is really not valid here, as it is applied to works of art (paintings, sculptures and etc) and also can only be applied if the person is reselling the work of art and making €1,000+ for it.

Incorrect, incorrect, incorrect. Sorry, but you are just flat out wrong.

• If there is no copyright documentation included with the work, then it is automatically ARR. Copyright documentation is frequently only included to allow certain things, not disallow. ie if someone wants to release their work under the GLP copyright, they would include documentation stating such.
• Copyright does not only apply to works of art. Nor does it only apply to works of art that are being sold. It absolutely applies to code as well.
• Copyright is attached the moment that the work is 'written down', whether it be on hard copy (paper) or electronic copy. The minute it is no longer just in their head, it is copyright protected ARR.

[Edit] Please note, I am not a lawyer, nor do I claim to be one. My comments are based solely on my experience with helping UI authors/artists protect their copyrighted works over the last 12 years. If you choose to take any of the steps suggested here, and if they don't work and you decide to pursue the matter into a court of law, please seek the advice of an actual lawyer.

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by Lynce Hello all, I work with a (not the) hosting company myself and deal with abuse reports. Also, their site does not contain advertising of any kind. I fully respect the authors, but the site is only reuploading the addons as they are, giving full credit to the authors and not making a dime from it in the process. *EDIT: Just as someone mentioned, the addons do not seem to have any copyright on them in general. ARR is really not valid here, as it is applied to works of art (paintings, sculptures and etc) and also can only be applied if the person is reselling the work of art and making €1,000+ for it.

Cairenn is correct. All Berne signatory countries recognize programs as a creative work, and it is copyrighted as soon as it's in a fixed medium. Copying is at the discretion of the author.

The only exceptions in the USA are for Fair Use, which would clearly not extend to making available. If the object uses a FOSS license such as GPL, rehosting is allowed, but note that this is still a license, not giving up the copyright. While making money off the works is a consideration of intent, there is no cutoff on sale value where a creative work loses its copyright.

Thanks for checking in on this, though. As the person who handles abuse, it would behoove you to become more familiar with copyright law.

[Karner]

I dont understand why people would do that. That's why I'm keeping the add-on closed to people who request it either here or in the guilds I'm in; have it spread through use rather than open download. Don't get me wrong, I don't mind the idea of people editing something I created for the better but blatantly taking it is wrong.

[Xrystal]

Originally Posted by ingeniousclown This might cause issues if it's in the add-on folder... I had a changelog.txt in my add-on folder at one point but it was being picked up as a separate add-on by the ESO client. Was kinda strange.

This is because ESO is using the txt extension as the equivalent of the WoW TOC file. The way I got around this was to make a .info file for my patch details and other useful stuff I wanted in the same folder but not show as a separate addon.

[Cairenn]

Just an update. I haven't heard back from SnackTools directly, but the three Zam addons have been removed from the site. It would seem that the site on which the files are actually residing (SnackTools) takes the matter of copyright seriously and they deal with it quickly. Less than 24 hours, exactly as they said to me (quoted previously). So yeah, guys & gals, don't even bother fighting with the ESOcore guy, go directly to SnackTools.

As a reminder, this is the page you need to fill out to ask SnackTools to remove your files. I've attached a screenshot with some sample text you can look at.

[Xrystal]

Yep looks like my one has gone now.

[skyraker]

Mine is gone now.

As for whether the guy running the site is making money advertising or not (my assumption is he is no matter if you see them), why not simply make a link to this site? Why spend precious resources on saving all these files and making them available when no one asked to make a mirror.

And he is not crediting this site or the authors. WarLegend Raid Frame has only this:

This AddOn replace the original RAID frame. It shows players HP (current), Stamina and Magicka Bars. Frames will fade out if the player is out of range. You can move the Frames one by one by opening your game menu. Submitted On: 2014-03-29

That tells me he is trying to take credit for these addons, which is completely wrong copyright or not.

EDIT: The site has a disclaimer at the bottom, but disclaimers about who has copyright does not give him permission to host our addons somewhere we haven't given permission.

[pjt15253]

Appears mine is on there - and the download link takes you to my curse.com download page. Thankfully, mine is GPLv3 so they're well within their rights to do that with mine, and at least they're linking to one of the places I'm maintaining it. Definitely see where this is a problem for other authors though. Thanks, Cairenn, for providing this information and helping to pursue this!

[Seerah]

For addons hosted on Curse, yes, they take you to Curse's download page which makes you wait a few seconds while they get views on their ads to pay for the bandwidth of the download.

For addons hosted here, they're linking directly to the download itself. This means we do not get any ad impressions to pay for the bandwidth they're using to serve the addon.

[Iyanga]

Originally Posted by Lynce *EDIT: Just as someone mentioned, the addons do not seem to have any copyright on them in general.

They don't need to.

A computer program is a "literary work" and automatically copyrighted, there doesn't need to be a copyright notice. And the author has therefore automatically the sole right to determine how, where and when his or her work is distributed.

http://www.ipo.gov.uk/cdpact1988.pdf

[Stormknight]

*sigh*

A friend just pointed out to me that esocore is now advertising all three of my addons, without contacting me for permission.

I notice the site now has a disclaimer at the bottom, "************ does not develop addons and has no intentions of copyright on the addons uploaded to the site. All copyright belongs to the addon developers." but that's a bunch of rubbish, they're still trying to make money off other people's work.

The snacktools approach doesn't seem like it will work now that they're hotlinking to other sites?

The problem I have with them linking to the curse download page is it bypasses what *I* have chosen to say about *my* addon, so the user doesn't read the instructions and doesn't have a way of providing feedback to me.

Anyone got any other ideas for dealing with this?

[archpoet]

Feels like a straight scrape.. some of these add-ons are not popular enough to warrant directly addressing (on their part.)

They've even got mine up there, and I released it 2 days ago.

Kinda makes me feel icky about the GPL2... :X