Wykkyd's Framework et. al....

Mithoron · 09/06/14, 04:02 PM

Has there really been a need for almost a DOZEN updates today alone? Can you not test this yourself without spamming us with update messages all day?

Seriously, I have currently EIGHT update messages for EACH of your addons today alone...I'm about to un-favorite yoru stuff just to keep the spam down....

**Wykkyd** · 09/06/14, 04:46 PM

You obviously have no concept of what it takes to completely re-write over 7000 lines of code and coordinate with a dozen testers. Feel free to use something else. I won't be ceasing my efforts to deliver a quality product and squash bugs to keep your favorite alerts down.

skyraker · 09/06/14, 04:50 PM

You keep doing what you are doing wykkyd! It is not as if many other addons have had updates today.

Mithoron · 09/06/14, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by Wykkyd

You obviously have no concept of what it takes to completely re-write over 7000 lines of code and coordinate with a dozen testers. Feel free to use something else. I won't be ceasing my efforts to deliver a quality product and squash bugs to keep your favorite alerts down.

As a software developer, I know EXACTLY what it takes to recode thousands of lines...and that is why I do not subjugate my users to continuous updates. You should be sending out your updates to your testers ONLY and not using the general population as a test bed. That is simply bad coding practice.

If you have a dozen testers, you make changes to your TEST copy, not your PRODUCTION copy, and only when it is stable do you release it to the general population...

TheChessurCat · 09/06/14, 05:56 PM

Originally Posted by Mithoron

As a software developer, I know EXACTLY what it takes to recode thousands of lines...and that is why I do not subjugate my users to continuous updates. You should be sending out your updates to your testers ONLY and not using the general population as a test bed. That is simply bad coding practice.

If you have a dozen testers, you make changes to your TEST copy, not your PRODUCTION copy, and only when it is stable do you release it to the general population...

Considering that he's doing this for free, you should be grateful that he updates at all. Many developers just stop entirely. Don't complain because he's doing too much.

***Cairenn*** · 09/06/14, 06:46 PM

All the 'he should/he shouldn't' etc aside, I'll use this moment to suggest you consider using Minion, our addon manager. If you set it to automatically update and just leave it open (it minimizes to your notification area) it'll take care of keeping everything updated for you, invisibly.

TribeofOne · 09/06/14, 07:17 PM

dont piss off one of our few remaining active mod devs. I personally couldnt play the game with the stock UI and I appreciate all these guys do

Tonyleila · 09/06/14, 07:58 PM

W
T
F
!

This is so much a Troll post.
Why do you even watch for updates if you don't want to see them!

***Cairenn*** · 09/07/14, 02:45 AM

Everyone, tone it down please.

Mithoron · 09/07/14, 03:41 AM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

Everyone, tone it down please.

Thank you Cairenn.

My point is, in the last 30 hours I have received over 40 e-mails for Wykkyd addons alone. That is a bit excessive, and my main question is why aren't these being tested with a limited population prior to going into production, plain and simple, basic 101 code developing.

Those that want to bash me, feel free to enjoy the anonymity of the internet, but what I stated is true, releasing so many production updates in such a small time is bad practice. Sure it's free, but if you don't want to hear back from your users...both the ones that seem to think you fart fairy dust and butterflies as well as the ones with legitimate complaints...then by all means, stop coding and somebody will inevitably fill your place. If it's not your framework, it will be somebody else's. This is not meant as an attack, but as a simple recommendation--use test users!

Why don't I code myself? Because I'm lazy, plain and simple. I code for a living and have done so for the last 15 years, so why would I bother coming home and doing the same for free? Sorry, I love my work, but not that much...so it's much easier to allow somebody else to do it. And if Wykkyd stops, as I said, there will be somebody else to fill that role...the game does not revolve around any one, or even any, addons.

My original comment was on the plethora of updates that have inundated my gaming e-mail this weekend, plain and simple, and I'm sorry your ego is too fragile to accept recommendations from your user-base.

To Cairenn's comment, I use Minion, but do not have it run continuously. I only fire it up when I know there are updates...and having to do so dozens of times in one weekend for only one author is a bit excessive.

Wykkyd, you're going to do what you're going to do, and I really don't care how offended you feel or not, or whether you stop coding or not, I was merely making a suggestion. Remember that for every one post on any support forum there are at least a factor of fifteen similar complaints that are not voiced. I may be one of many, but I'm certain I'm not the only one wondering what's up with all the updates and why you don't have a beta test group to put these revisions past first. Updating production code is sloppy, plain and simple, and if you feel offended by simple best practice suggestions, maybe you SHOULD take a break from coding for a while until you remember why you are doing it, for the users...otherwise you would simply make it your own little private addon and play happily.

It is funny that I am called the troll when I have been the only constructive criticism in the thread, so I am done with it...Cairenn, feel free to lock this, as I'm sure nothing more positive will come out of this, everybody's gut instinct is to go on the defensive with caustic comments....

**Wykkyd** · 09/07/14, 04:51 AM

Everything I did was tested first.

There are THOUSANDS of ways to use my addons. I cannot possibly think of everything a user will do.

My initial publishing worked flawlessly FOR ME, and for 3 other testers BEFORE publishing.

Every single update after that was to kill ALL KNOWN BUGS that had been reported to me AT THAT TIME.

Not once was I sitting there going, "oh hey, let's just publish what I have so far, hyuhyu...". I fixed the bugs I had, tested amongst several people and published. Then 30 to 40 minutes would go by and someone else would ping me with something else I hadn't found yet. I WAS TRYING TO GRIND EXP on my Templar after every single publish.

I started this last code sprint at 7:15 am Friday. I worked straight through until, what, 11 am Saturday before my first publish? 28 hours? Don't you think I wanted to PLAY by that point, not program? I ended up pulling almost 40 hours straight supporting these addons yesterdayandthedaybeforecombined. Trust me, if there was a way to publish less I would've published less.

Or hey, better yet maybe you can scurry off with all of your expertise and find me a professional QA team so I can launch bug free every time, eh? Maybe I'll do scrum meetings every morning with you, keep you up to speed. Right? This is an unpaid gig. I already have one day job.

I've been in software development for almost 30 years, champ (1986 to 2014, do the math). There is nothing you're going to tell me that I don't already know. I'm sorry my updates were inconvenient for you, but that's just how **** played out. Take your angst somewhere else. It's doing none of us any good.

Sasky · 09/07/14, 12:16 PM

Perhaps it would help if there was an easy mechanism to push the site beta releases to a larger subset (via opt-in, of course) through Minion. There is an option to upload a beta version to the site, but it's hidden away from users and goes through a manual install.

Most addon authors have had significant bugs in a release that they then immediately fix. Changing that much code (without some sort of automated unit/integration testing with high coverage) will introduce bugs. I think most people are much happier with the quick response to fix them, even if it does send extra emails.

You do have options to reduce your own annoyance level, rather than asking Wykkyd to hold off bugfixes/releases. Throw a filter on those emails and run them into a folder. You can probably use something like "If this then that" (ifttt.com) to create daily or weekly digests. Or turn off email notifications and just check periodically with Minion (what I personally do, often on the timeframe of 3-4 days).

Originally Posted by Mithoron

It is funny that I am called the troll when I have been the only constructive criticism in the thread, so I am done with it...Cairenn, feel free to lock this, as I'm sure nothing more positive will come out of this, everybody's gut instinct is to go on the defensive with caustic comments....

Frankly it isn't very constructive. You're essentially telling Wykkyd to "find all your bugs before general release" or "hold off on your bugfixes so you don't spam release notifications". As you can see from his comment, he did do limited testing first, more than most authors. So, holding the fixes just so some people would get fewer notifications (that they opted in to get) is a bit petty.

doumer · 09/07/14, 01:11 PM

NOOOO! No more multi monitor support? Fu** this sucks like hell! Making this add on totally useless ... searching for hours to find the old version since damn minion don't allow downgrades GODDAMIT!

Sternentau · 09/07/14, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

Everyone, tone it down please.

You are right, i have removed my comment - it was not my intention to blame someone.
But i am absolutely not with Mithoron

Sternentau

**Wykkyd** · 09/07/14, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by doumer

NOOOO! No more multi monitor support? Fu** this sucks like hell! Making this add on totally useless ... searching for hours to find the old version since damn minion don't allow downgrades GODDAMIT!

You can get the old version from another popular download site I won't mention, but it's several months old. Sorry, I need to stop supporting features I can't actually test (like multi-screen).

Tonyleila · 09/07/14, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by Wykkyd

You can get the old version from another popular download site I won't mention, but it's several months old. Sorry, I need to stop supporting features I can't actually test (like multi-screen).

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info8...ork.html#other

**Wykkyd** · 09/07/14, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by Tonyleila

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info8...ork.html#other

Those don't have the pre-change version he wants. Otherwise I would've linked that for him.

**Wykkyd** · 09/08/14, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Wykkyd

Those don't have the pre-change version he wants. Otherwise I would've linked that for him.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info7...ite.html#other

^^ that link will get him what he wants. Just download any 9/6 file and pull out mhFramework folder (that's all you need).

I will see about reviving a new multi-monitor addon tonight (I can't test it though, so I need volunteers).

javish · 09/08/14, 09:00 AM

Nevermind!!!

doumer · 09/08/14, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by Wykkyd

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info7...ite.html#other

^^ that link will get him what he wants. Just download any 9/6 file and pull out mhFramework folder (that's all you need).

I will see about reviving a new multi-monitor addon tonight (I can't test it though, so I need volunteers).

oh thanks a lot! if you need testers, i volunteer

Sorry for beeing a bit enraged yesterday, but ESO offers nothing regarding multi monitor support and without your add-on the eyefinity-add-on also doesn't work alas multi monitor experience is severely crippled :-(

BTW: "regular" monitors are quite affordable nowadays and ESO on 5760*1080 runs just fine on my old geforce 670 (a bit overclocked)...so I would guess there could be some more out there playing on more then one screen because with your addon it's a lovely experience. Will send you some beer for sure if you continue multi monitor support / doing some new magic.