"borrowing" code snippets

esothomas · 07/16/14, 06:06 AM

(didn't know where else to put this, so...)

in reference to this thread, what do we do to emphasize the (potentially) questionable morality displayed?

i know we work in a copy/paste milieu, but that doesn't mean acknowledgements can't be made. it just seems so dishonest to not even mention the source(s).

Harven · 07/16/14, 07:25 AM

Hey,
I really don't like when people do copy/paste work without even stating that they used someones else code, but I think in this case accusations are exaggerated. I see only one copy/paste function from LightWeightMinimap (16 lines of code). The addon structure (folders and file names) are similar to RMM and so are few function names. You can say that the structure is inspired by RMM. But generally the code is very different from LightWeightMinimap and RMM. I don't think it deserves to be blocked or something because this isn't staight copy/paste/mix work. I agree that the author should write in the description that his addon was inspired by RMM and LightWeightMinimap but again this accusation: "The author has copied LightWeightMinimap and RMM in a new addon." is really exaggerated and unjust.
My opinion is based on about 30 minutes of looking at these three addons so maybe more deep review will reveal more copy/paste work but I think will be no more than few percent of the whole code.

zgrssd · 07/16/14, 08:36 AM

If you think it really was stolen, just report it. The team will take a closer look at it. And if they disagree nothing will happen.

It is hard to know where exactly the border between insipiration, copy&paste and "great minds think alike" lies.
And it is quite possible that the functions look simialr is only conincidence:
There is often only one way to solve a given problem. That two people who solved the same problem happened to have the same solution is nothing odd.

I don't need to look at the code to guess that UnifiedChatTabs and ChatSetup propably have a few pieces of code in common. They work on the same thing (reading and writing of chat tab data & category colors). They solve the same issues. So naturally they might do so in the same way.
If not I propably look wich solution is better (mine or Xerovan) and just adapt it.

esothomas · 07/16/14, 09:56 AM

yeah, i just wanted to run it by someone before i got all up in arms and stuff.

of course, i'd like for creators to be honest enough to state their "borrowing" clearly, but such is not always the case...

is there even a "report" function on this site?

zgrssd · 07/16/14, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by esothomas

yeah, i just wanted to run it by someone before i got all up in arms and stuff.

of course, i'd like for creators to be honest enough to state their "borrowing" clearly, but such is not always the case...

is there even a "report" function on this site?

At the bottom of the Addon Page.
Just above the Category Jump System.
It is called "report this File".

esothomas · 07/16/14, 04:39 PM

Originally Posted by zgrssd

At the bottom of the Addon Page.

yeah i guess one of those categories would do. ah well... monitoring the situation for now, methinks.

pills · 07/18/14, 04:03 PM

I don't personally know the author nor have I bothered to look at code, however, the author in question has credited my add on in one of his for a much less creditable action (the author also provided much help and was credited in return) so if this did happen perhaps a simple polite private message would be better suited than publicly calling this person out in the forums and add on comment pages.

esothomas · 07/22/14, 03:08 AM

Originally Posted by pills

has credited my add on in one of his

but the user only has one.

Kraeius · 07/22/14, 04:16 AM

deathangel1479's account seems hacked (changing his addon descriptions to nil and his comments to "I'm stupid") and ESO Mini Map's author spamming around ("I killed it because it was ****" messages) with different but similar usernames. Or maybe it's a vice-versa and deathangel1479 is doing some weird things around.

I think it needs to be investigated by ESOUI team.

Edit: Also now ESO Mini Map's author is deleting new comments on the addon's page.

***Cairenn*** · 07/22/14, 04:20 AM

No, I deleted it.

esothomas · 07/22/14, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

No, I deleted it.

oh, my apologies, i wasn't aware we weren't allowed to raise these kind of issues on mod pages (i made a comment with a bit of details). in truth, i only wanted to draw attention to the fact that something really weird was going on.

(btw. i hope it's okay for me to discuss these things here!)

additionally, i'm not sure if this is a "feud spill" from other sites. i only relate to what's going on here on esoui, so my knowledge obviously might be limited.

***Cairenn*** · 07/22/14, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by esothomas

oh, my apologies, i wasn't aware we weren't allowed to raise these kind of issues on mod pages (i made a comment with a bit of details). in truth, i only wanted to draw attention to the fact that something really weird was going on.

(btw. i hope it's okay for me to discuss these things here!)

additionally, i'm not sure if this is a "feud spill" from other sites. i only relate to what's going on here on esoui, so my knowledge obviously might be limited.

My response was re Kraeius's edit:

Originally Posted by Kraeius

deathangel1479's account seems hacked (changing his addon descriptions to nil and his comments to "I'm stupid") and ESO Mini Map's author spamming around ("I killed it because it was ****" messages) with different but similar usernames. Or maybe it's a vice-versa and deathangel1479 is doing some weird things around.

I think it needs to be investigated by ESOUI team.

Edit: Also now ESO Mini Map's author is deleting new comments on the addon's page.

I was saying that it wasn't the ESO Mini Map's author who had removed the "I killed it because it was ****" comment, I was the one [that deleted it].

Frankly, though, at this point I'd appreciate it if everyone other than the actual authors that are directly involved in this mess just butt the heck out, you're making things worse, not better.

esothomas · 07/22/14, 05:18 AM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

My response was re Kraeius's edit

i know. and you deleted my comment too. i just figured i'd mention it

and in the vein of my last post - and your appeal - sure, i'll let it rest for now

just concerned about the integrity of the community, is all.

Kraeius · 07/22/14, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

My response was re Kraeius's edit:

I was saying that it wasn't the ESO Mini Map's author who had removed the "I killed it because it was ****" comment, I was the one [that deleted it].

Frankly, though, at this point I'd appreciate it if everyone other than the actual authors that are directly involved in this mess just butt the heck out, you're making things worse, not better.

Making things worse? Noticing you what happens around is making things worse you think?

I wonder If we wouldn't point this conversations here and there when would you notice such things happen? Also, being an Admin here don't give you any right to remove comments of people without "noticing" them about it.

It's better if you appreciate that we discuss it instead of telling us to stop. This is unprofessional and just a forum admin ego, nothing more.

***Cairenn*** · 07/22/14, 06:41 AM

Originally Posted by esothomas

i know. and you deleted my comment too. i just figured i'd mention it

and in the vein of my last post - and your appeal - sure, i'll let it rest for now

just concerned about the integrity of the community, is all.

Nope, didn't delete your comments. The only ones I deleted were a couple that were posted by the hacker. I do thank you for the reports though, helped me get on top of it fairly quickly.

Originally Posted by Kraeius

Making things worse? Noticing you what happens around is making things worse you think?

I wonder If we wouldn't point this conversations here and there when would you notice such things happen? Also, being an Admin here don't give you any right to remove comments of people without "noticing" them about it.

It's better if you appreciate that we discuss it instead of telling us to stop. This is unprofessional and just a forum admin ego, nothing more.

There is a difference between specifically and directly making us aware of problems that are happening on the site versus random posts in a thread. The best way to let us know about problems on the site is the way esothomas did: he used the 'report' button that is at the bottom left of every post, comment and addon page on the site. The second best way is a PM to one of us. A post in a thread will eventually get noticed, but it may take a while since there are so many threads on so many sites.

As for removing the comments, I removed two - both of them by the hacker. I'm not about to apologize for cleaning up spam, and it certainly isn't an 'ego trip".

Kraeius · 07/22/14, 07:02 AM

Originally Posted by Cairenn

Nope, didn't delete your comments. The only ones I deleted were a couple that were posted by the hacker. I do thank you for the reports though, helped me get on top of it fairly quickly.

There is a difference between specifically and directly making us aware of problems that are happening on the site versus random posts in a thread. The best way to let us know about problems on the site is the way esothomas did: he used the 'report' button that is at the bottom left of every post, comment and addon page on the site. The second best way is a PM to one of us. A post in a thread will eventually get noticed, but it may take a while since there are so many threads on so many sites.

As for removing the comments, I removed two - both of them by the hacker. I'm not about to apologize for cleaning up spam, and it certainly isn't an 'ego trip".

Thanking esothomas after telling him that he makes things worse seem a road change to me.

Also, my comment was deleted too and I'm pretty sure that it was not a spam.

Next time please, before telling people that they are making things worse, who has the intention to help community problems with pointing some events on a thread "that specifically about corresponding subject", approach with more manner. You may remind me or anyone else that we should be more discreet about reporting such things instead of telling them about keeping their mouths shut.

esothomas · 07/22/14, 07:11 AM

hmm, does vBulletin remove comment trees or something like that? because i did in fact post something on RMM that got deleted - a quote of the post linking to EMM. and i remember seeing Kraeius' too.

anyways, Kraeius, let's just let things cool down now. i think the admins are on top of it

and i hope deathangel1479 will be back again soon.

zgrssd · 07/22/14, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by Kraeius

Making things worse? Noticing you what happens around is making things worse you think?

Right now they have enough to do dealing with the issue.
The last thing they need is somebody who does not know enough about the issue or the job talking in on them "how to do it".
I know I don't know the job and would propably not fare as well, so I don't cirticise. You propably do not either or you would be a lot more hesistant ot criticise a fellow [job or hobby].

The account has been temporarily banned to avoid further damage.
Posts have been removed because they appeared like spam.
If you think one of your posts was removed by accident and it is so important as to warant the work for the team to restore it and it is not just easier to post it again - write a PM about. Don't talk about it in public.
The team has noticed it. They are working on it. Excessively mentioning or debating it will only come across as blaming/shaming them. And they are in thier right to be annoyed about that. Especialy if you really have no idea of the job.

esothomas · 07/22/14, 09:10 AM

yeah we can all rest easy now

who cares if a few comments got caught in the fire... main thing is that the destruction of the mod has been contained. that was the goal of our communication, and that goal has been reached. might not've been pretty, but we'll manage, and move on

Kraeius · 07/22/14, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by zgrssd

Right now they have enough to do dealing with the issue.
The last thing they need is somebody who does not know enough about the issue or the job talking in on them "how to do it".
I know I don't know the job and would propably not fare as well, so I don't cirticise. You propably do not either or you would be a lot more hesistant ot criticise a fellow [job or hobby].

The account has been temporarily banned to avoid further damage.
Posts have been removed because they appeared like spam.
If you think one of your posts was removed by accident and it is so important as to warant the work for the team to restore it and it is not just easier to post it again - write a PM about. Don't talk about it in public.
The team has noticed it. They are working on it. Excessively mentioning or debating it will only come across as blaming/shaming them. And they are in thier right to be annoyed about that. Especialy if you really have no idea of the job.

There is no one here who tells anyone about how to do their job. I dont see any comment around like "Ban
him, Delete this, Open it, Close it, Change it etc". We let them know about the issue and blamed that we made things worse. Read carefully before make any furthter claim about me.

I know this stuff btw well and yes I also know what to do in such problems as its a part of my job that I make such software they use to track hacking attempts. But its not place to tell them how to do or what to do. So no one did it. Its clear that you just wrote to write or to take some credit from the board.

While you were telling me where to write and claiming that I'm acting like ordering people about the things I dont know, from your message I can see that you know about the situation pretty well and what EsoUI did like someone in the team.

Also, if you think that I cant write about a deleted comment on a forum thread that spesifically arguing about this subject (which I reported that a hacking attempt made on a user and an other one was deleting comments to hide evidence) then only PM me about your claims, dont write it public. Lets close all of the forum threads and only communicate via private messages, for gods sake.