3/19 ESO addon API gutted

[Wykkyd]

Originally Posted by AlleyKat This makes game harder

Do one of your party members need a purge to remove a debuff that's eating them alive? No way to tell. No way for THEM to tell. Go ahead... blow 1/3 of your magicka guessing to find out.

^ that does not make the game better.

[Nabren]

Originally Posted by Wykkyd Do one of your party members need a purge to remove a debuff that's eating them alive? No way to tell. No way for THEM to tell. Go ahead... blow 1/3 of your magicka guessing to find out. ^ that does not make the game better.

Ya, I don't see the game staying like this so hopefully they will re-enable that API or fix the default UI sooner rather than later. You really need to know what's affecting you and your party/raid group at the very least.

[AlleyKat]

Originally Posted by Wykkyd Do one of your party members need a purge to remove a debuff that's eating them alive? No way to tell. No way for THEM to tell. Go ahead... blow 1/3 of your magicka guessing to find out. ^ that does not make the game better.

they cut "longterm buffs/debuffs"
Game hides buffs with duration less, then 30 seconds

[Wykkyd]

Originally Posted by AlleyKat They will restore players and party debuffs, but debuffs will shown in shorter way. they cannot do it now, coz player, party and enemy buffs/debuffs are self-depended

They will? Link to where they made this statement?

[Areodon]

Originally Posted by inDef Overall the reactions I've been reading are extremely over-exaggerated. ZOS had 2 options here: 1. Keep the API the way it was and upgrade their own UI to display all the information that you could get through addons. or 2. Scale back the API and only allow it to access the same information as the default UI. They went with step 2 which is a very smart decision. Step 1 would take time they don't have right now, plain and simple. Step 2 allows them to start "bare bones" so to speak and then add features slowly based on user feedback. In business it is ALWAYS better to start with less and add...then to start with more and remove. This was a very good decision by ZOS. Any other reaction to this news is simply an emotional gamer over-reaction.

Yes, you are probably right but u seems to think that this situation just happen to ZOS. Actually thats not right - they caused this situation. They could avoid it long time ago. Nothing is smart about your act if u neglect some important money generating things for ages. They are not heros and they are not saving a day. This is just another mistake in long chain of mistakes they did. So please dont try to show this example as good business practice - it is quite opposite.

[ins]

I'm getting some serious SWTOR vibes from this game.

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by inDef Overall the reactions I've been reading are extremely over-exaggerated. ZOS had 2 options here: 1. Keep the API the way it was and upgrade their own UI to display all the information that you could get through addons. or 2. Scale back the API and only allow it to access the same information as the default UI. They went with step 2 which is a very smart decision. Step 1 would take time they don't have right now, plain and simple. Step 2 allows them to start "bare bones" so to speak and then add features slowly based on user feedback. In business it is ALWAYS better to start with less and add...then to start with more and remove. This was a very good decision by ZOS. Any other reaction to this news is simply an emotional gamer over-reaction.

While I mostly agree with your overall assessment, those were not the only two options. They had the option to leave it as it was. They had the option to make those all protected, and not function in cyridil. There were lots of other options, too.

I do have to chuckle at the "there goes my preorder" comment from a non addon author. For all we know, they could've added that functionality into the base ui. He was obviously looking for a reason to drop the preorder. It could've been a 1 hour delay on launch and I'm sure that would've been plenty good enough to cancel for him.

In any case, it does help with one thing, and that was a fear that the best addons win in PvP. This helps level that playing field, but it makes little sense in pve to not be able to see your own and your group's buffs/debuffs.

Other than that, I see no meaningful issues.

[inDef]

Originally Posted by Vuelhering While I mostly agree with your overall assessment, those were not the only two options. They had the option to leave it as it was. They had the option to make those all protected, and not function in cyridil. There were lots of other options, too. I do have to chuckle at the "there goes my preorder" comment from a non addon author. For all we know, they could've added that functionality into the base ui. He was obviously looking for a reason to drop the preorder. It could've been a 1 hour delay on launch and I'm sure that would've been plenty good enough to cancel for him. In any case, it does help with one thing, and that was a fear that the best addons win in PvP. This helps level that playing field, but it makes little sense in pve to not be able to see your own and your group's buffs/debuffs. Other than that, I see no meaningful issues.

All my point was is that it's better to remove all of it before launch and then start adding back functionality slowly based on user feedback.

For the way the game is now, none of these changes matter. Cyrodiil is not a competitive PvP platform. While I greatly respect Wykkyd, I disagree that it is important to know exactly what is or isn't killing you or your friend. In massive zerg fights none of that information matters. In smaller scale fights it does matter...but when there is no penalty or stake in winning or losing...again, it doesn't really matter.

If they add arena or some kind of competitive PvP scenario... then all of the information they removed from the API will need to be re-introduced and built into the default UI.

Until then, I feel that all of these changes are fine.

[AlleyKat]

Originally Posted by ins I'm getting some serious SWTOR vibes from this game.

It was fine, until they drop highlevel content

[Unordinary]

Originally Posted by inDef All my point was is that it's better to remove all of it before launch and then start adding back functionality slowly based on user feedback. For the way the game is now, none of these changes matter. Cyrodiil is not a competitive PvP platform. While I greatly respect Wykkyd, I disagree that it is important to know exactly what is or isn't killing you or your friend. In massive zerg fights none of that information matters. In smaller scale fights it does matter...but when there is no penalty or stake in winning or losing...again, it doesn't really matter. If they add arena or some kind of competitive PvP scenario... then all of the information they removed from the API will need to be re-introduced and built into the default UI. Until then, I feel that all of these changes are fine.

this is just a horrible, horrible post.

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by Unordinary this is just a horrible, horrible post.

It's just his opinion.

Probably for the first time in history, we can compare this to another game that allows addons and has elves and dwarves and stuff...

They released a pretty robust API, subsequently pared it down a little bit when too much functionality was being abused, added some protected code which prevented certain functions from working during combat, later added taint fields to it so that you couldn't muck with variables, and then pared it down a little bit more to prevent certain other functionality from working. That game was called world of warcraft... real niche game probably nobody has heard of.

So ZO could have easily released a more robust API and pared it down a bit if they found they didn't like how things were being used. I find the API a little lacking, but this change didn't make much difference overall.

The title of this thread is just a giant troll.

[wraith808]

I like it better, actually when they add features rather than deprecating them. I think they adjusted the knob too far. But as long as they do what they say and re-evaluate as launched, I think it's a better direction.

[Lichbane]

Originally Posted by Wykkyd Do one of your party members need a purge to remove a debuff that's eating them alive? No way to tell. No way for THEM to tell. Go ahead... blow 1/3 of your magicka guessing to find out. ^ that does not make the game better.

My solution is to not waste skill points on cleanse and insist people bring their own cleanse potions. I'm not blowing 1/3 of my mana on a guessing game.

[Lichbane]

Originally Posted by Wykkyd They will? Link to where they made this statement?

I'm with Wykkyd on this. The reddit AMA just had cheap marketing motherhood statements about the API. There is no guarantee they will bring back any of this information.

[Anceane]

Originally Posted by Wykkyd Do one of your party members need a purge to remove a debuff that's eating them alive? No way to tell. No way for THEM to tell. Go ahead... blow 1/3 of your magicka guessing to find out. ^ that does not make the game better.

Or you can use any voice tool (Teamspeak, etc etc) and communicate when need.

I dont deny that some players are used to those addons and can not do without them, but i am not sur it will be so hard if people learn to communicate and then adjust their play.

For now, i can only see an ESO community just good to jump at the throat of the other side.... and just for that reason i would rather have no addons authorized until people get back to a little common sense

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by Anceane Or you can use any voice tool (Teamspeak, etc etc) and communicate when need.

Uhhhh... Requiring 3rd party tools to communicate simple game mechanics in order to play at a minimally competent level is not appropriate.

I'm not up in arms about this, but the unit buff/debuff functionality should work for groupmembers, too. That's kind of messed up IMO.

[Anceane]

Originally Posted by Vuelhering Uhhhh... Requiring 3rd party tools to communicate simple game mechanics in order to play at a minimally competent level is not appropriate. I'm not up in arms about this, but the unit buff/debuff functionality should work for groupmembers, too. That's kind of messed up IMO.

See even with guild make having voice third party a must to use, you think that this is not good enough or normal ...

This is a debate that will never end, i want, you want, they want, and in finae we will all lost something

I am too old to argue or debate, i guess.

[Vuelhering]

Originally Posted by Anceane See even with guild make having voice third party a must to use, you think that this is not good enough or normal ... This is a debate that will never end, i want, you want, they want, and in finae we will all lost something I am too old to argue or debate, i guess.

I'm just stating what I see based on the game, not guild policies or some such.

ZO included addon capability, which is a huge boon for THEM. It allows others to develop stuff to correct their own oversights, on a voluntary basis (both by users and programmers). When blizzard did theirs, many addons got incorporated into the basic UI over years, including things like raid frames (ctmod), outfitter (I believe originally from Wykkid, on these boards), and a robust buff/debuff system. They even added voice chat, to prevent having to deal with 3rd party programs for those guilds that forced it. I think any guild can be competitive in raids using only the basic wow UI at this point, although there are definitely some useful mods to help in the boss fights.

Thus, I think ZO is hurting themselves by being too strict with the API interface. If people cannot code up UI issues they find, ZO doesn't get any free programmers willing to code up solutions. In fact, they alienate people who had already started coding such stuff.

What's a shame is that we're getting threads like this. If they had never released the API until now, everyone would be overjoyed. But because they trimmed the API, now people are (rightfully or not) annoyed.

[ringoblood]

Originally Posted by AlleyKat Excellent news! This game looks awesome without numbers statistics overload

That's fine for you. Dont use the add-ons then but dont punish the rest of us. Add-ons are optional, so please sit down and shut up.

[inDef]

Originally Posted by Unordinary this is just a horrible, horrible post.

My post is horrible because you disagree with it? How 2014 of you.